Difference between revisions of "Paiste 505"

Latest revision as of 01:32, 4 November 2024

505

Introduction: 1978
Discontinued: 1986 (German factory offered 505s until 1993!)
Background: The successor to the long-running Stambul series, Paiste 505's were released to the public in 1978 and slotted in under the 2002.
There are definitely oddball sizes and types out there that were produced during the transition from the Stambul B8 line and cymbals with both a Stambul emboss and a 505 hand stamp logo exist (see pictures below).
Early Swiss-made Black Label 505's have a single line hand stamp which was later changed to a double line stamp mirroring the 2002 logo, probably in the latter part of 1978 or early in 1979. German-made Black Label 505's always have a single line hand stamp, also the German factory used a different serial numbering system than the Swiss factory, see "Deciphering German serial numbers".
The transition to the Green Label silk screened logo begins in 1981. There are a substantial amount of Green Label 505's out there with no serial number.
At least some German Green Label 505's made in 1983 have a logo variant with a hollow crescent moon and star (picture on lower right).
The line gains new sizes, types and weights during the Green Label phase before it is discontinued in 1986 (The German factory continued to offer 505's in their catalogs until 1993, most likely leftovers) and replaced in price point by the 1000 series and in sound and quality by the 2000 series.
According to an interview with Toomas Paiste, there were two reasons Paiste changed up the B8 lines in 1986:
1. To introduce the innovations in the 3000 line (new lathing, etc.).
2. To get the quality of the budget series in line with prices (more importantly according to Toomas).
The 505's were "too good" for what Paiste was selling them for: they were 35% cheaper than an equivalent 2002 but required almost the same amount of hand labor to produce.
U.S. availability:

Rogers never listed 505's in their catalogs or distributed them in the U.S. from 1978 to 1980 (no black label 505's were sold in the U.S.)
505's were not available in the U.S until ~1981 when Paiste opened their North American distribution center, by then they had the printed "green stamp" logo along with an expanded selection of models and sizes.

Alloy: CuSn8 (Also known as "2002 Bronze")
Quality: "A truly affordable pro-quality cymbal at the student or semi-pro level. Paiste experience, craftsmanship and understanding of choice materials give these cymbals many professional features".
Production: These cymbals were fully hammered into shape, not stamped, the same production techniques were used as on the top line cymbals.
Applications: All types of music, particularly pop and rock.
Sound: "505 cymbals produce a fully resonant, vibrant sound. They are developed to provide the drummer with a good quality cymbal. All Paiste 505 cymbals give a true professional cymbal sound with clear character definition. The ride cymbals have strong definite stick-rhythm sound. The multi-purpose medium cymbals can be used for loud, forceful crash or gentle ride effects, crash cymbals give compact, cutting accents."
Early 80's "Green label" models and size additions can be seen in green below:

Rides

Heavy - 10" 11" 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 17" 18" 19" 20" 21" 22" 24" 26"
Heavy Ride - 18" 20" 22"
Ride - 13" 16" 18" 20" 22"

Crashes

Crash - 13" 14" 15" 16" 18" 20" 22"
Heavy Crash - 16" 18" 20"
Medium - 10" 11" 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 17" 18" 19" 20" 21" 22" 24" 26"
Thin - 10" 11" 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 17" 18" 19" 20" 21" 22" 24" 26"

Hi-Hats

First appearance of 505's in Paiste's '78 catalog, note sizes are the same as the previous Stambul line.
'78 European price list including marching sizes
1979 European catalog.
1985 catalog listing
Early 80's Expanded lineup
1993 German price list
Swiss stamp and black label logo
'87 German 505 with oddball "Paiste" font
German 505 serial# 194708 = ~1979 production
German serial# 203998: ~1980 production (black label restamped as Green label)
No serial number, Swiss Green label 505
B8 Stambul restamped as Early 505 note: single line logo.
German 505/Stambul 14" thin, serial# 171908 = 1977
German 505/Stambul 13" medium, serial# 170661 = 1977
German 505/Stambul 20" heavy, serial# 170603 = 1977
German 505/Stambul 12" heavy, serial# 175481
13" "ride" possibly a restamped black label marching cymbal
black label 13" size stamp still visible
10" medium, most likely a leftover Stambul

Information from: Paiste catalogs, Todd Little, Dan Garza, Boris Smit

1979 Paiste catalog
1985 Paiste catalog

Return to the Paiste Series Portal
Return to the Paiste Cymbal Type Portal

@@ Line 3: / Line 3: @@
 <div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
 [[File:505 logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 Logo]]
+[[File:Swiss 505 logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label Swiss stamp.]]
+[[File:German 505 logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label German stamp.]]
+[[File:505 swiss logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 Swiss Logo]]
 [[File:505 green stamp.jpg|thumb|right|250px|'81 and later German green stamp]]
+[[File:505 german hollow cresent.jpg|thumb|right|250px|German "hollow crescent"]]
 '''Introduction:''' 1978 <br>
-'''Discontinued:''' 1986 <br>
+'''Discontinued:''' 1986 (German factory offered 505s until 1993!)<br>
+'''Background:''' The successor to the long-running Stambul series, Paiste 505's were released to the public in 1978 and slotted in under the 2002.<br>
-'''Background:''' The successor to the long-running Stambul series, Paiste 505s were released to the public in 1978 and slotted in under the 2002. It appears production of the line might of begun in the Swiss factory staring sometime in 1974. There are likely oddball sizes and types out there that were produced during the transition from the Stambul B8 line and cymbals with both a Stambul emboss and a 505 hand stamp logo exist. Early Swiss-made Black Label 505s have a single line hand stamp which was later changed to a double line stamp mirroring the 2002 logo, probably in the latter part of 1978 or early in 1979.<br>
+There are definitely oddball sizes and types out there that were produced during the transition from the Stambul B8 line and cymbals with both a Stambul emboss and a 505 hand stamp logo exist (see pictures below).<br>
-German-made Black Label 505s seem to always have a single line hand stamp. There are German-made Black Label 505s with serial numbers, always starting with a "1" or "2". The German factory used a different serial system than the Swiss factory. The 1x 505s are from 1978 and 1979 and the 2x cymbals are from the early 80s.<br>
+Early Swiss-made Black Label 505's have a single line hand stamp which was later changed to a double line stamp mirroring the 2002 logo, probably in the latter part of 1978 or early in 1979. German-made Black Label 505's always have a single line hand stamp, also the German factory used a different serial numbering system than the Swiss factory, see [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers#.2A.2AGerman_serial_numbers.2A.2A '''"Deciphering German serial numbers"'''].<br>
-The transition to the Green Label silk screened logo begins in 1981. There are a high percentage of Green Label 505s out there with no serial number. At least some German Green Label 505s made in 1983 have a logo variant with a hollow crescent moon and star. The line gains new sizes and types (and weight) during the Green Label phase before it is discontinued in 1985 (with some cymbals being made/sold into 1986) and replaced in price point by the 1000 series and in spirit by the 2000 series. The 505s were one of the best values in the history of cymbals, and fought well-above their weight class.
+The transition to the Green Label silk screened logo begins in 1981. There are a substantial amount of Green Label 505's out there with no serial number.<br>
+At least some German Green Label 505's made in 1983 have a logo variant with a hollow crescent moon and star (picture on lower right).<br>
-*Rogers never listed 505's in their catalogs or distributed them in the U.S. from 1978 to 1980<br>
+The line gains new sizes, types and weights during the Green Label phase before it is discontinued in 1986 (The German factory continued to offer 505's in their catalogs until 1993, most likely leftovers) and replaced in price point by the 1000 series and in sound and quality by the 2000 series.<br>
-*505's were not available in the U.S until ~1981 when Paiste opened their North American distribution center, by then they had the printed "green stamp" logo along with an expanded selection of models and sizes, see chart below.
+According to an interview with Toomas Paiste, there were two reasons Paiste changed up the B8 lines in 1986:<br>
+. To introduce the innovations in the 3000 line (new lathing, etc.). <br>
-'''Innovation:''' <br>
+. To get the quality of the budget series in line with prices (more importantly according to Toomas). <br>
+The 505's were "too good" for what Paiste was selling them for: they were 35% cheaper than an equivalent 2002 but required almost the same amount of hand labor to produce.<br>
+<b>U.S. availability:</b>
+*Rogers never listed 505's in their catalogs or distributed them in the U.S. from 1978 to 1980 (no black label 505's were sold in the U.S.)<br>
+*505's were not available in the U.S until ~1981 when Paiste opened their North American distribution center, by then they had the printed "green stamp" logo along with an expanded selection of models and sizes.<br>
 '''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br>
+'''Quality:''' "A truly affordable pro-quality cymbal at the student or semi-pro level. Paiste experience, craftsmanship and understanding of choice materials give these cymbals many professional features".<br>
-'''Quality:''' A truly affordable pro-quality cymbal at the student or semi-pro level. Paiste experience, craftsmanship and understanding of choice materials give these cymbals many professional features. (1)<br>
+'''Production:''' These cymbals were fully hammered into shape, not stamped, the same production techniques were used as on the top line cymbals.<br>
+'''Applications:''' All types of music, particularly pop and rock.<br>
-'''Production:''' Cast cymbals using more mass production (automated) manufacturing methods with some manual hammering<br>
+'''Sound:''' "505 cymbals produce a fully resonant, vibrant sound. They are developed to provide the drummer with a good quality cymbal. All Paiste 505 cymbals give a true professional cymbal sound with clear character definition.
+The ride cymbals have strong definite stick-rhythm sound. The multi-purpose medium cymbals can be used for loud, forceful crash or gentle ride effects, crash cymbals give compact, cutting accents."<br>
-'''Applications:''' All types of music, particularly pop and rock<br>
+<b>Early 80's "Green label" models and size additions can be seen in <font color="green">green</font> below:</b><br><br>
-'''Users:'''  <br>
-'''Sound:''' 505 cymbals produce a fully resonant, vibrant sound. They are developed to provide the drummer with a good quality cymbal.(1)<br>
-All Paiste 505 cymbals give a true professional cymbal sound with clear character definition.<br>
-The ride cymbals have strong definite stick-rhythm sound. The multi-purpose medium cymbals can be used for loud, forceful crash or gentle ride effects.
-Crash cymbals give compact, cutting accents. (2)<br>
-<b>1981 model and size additions can be seen in <font color="green">green</font> below:</b>
 ==== Rides ====
-* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Ride|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Ride|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Ride|22"]]<br>
+* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste 505 10" Heavy|10"]] [[Paiste 505 11" Heavy|11"]] [[Paiste 505 12" Heavy|12"]] [[Paiste 505 13" Heavy|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Heavy|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" Heavy|17"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste 505 19" Heavy|19"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste 505 21" Heavy|21"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Heavy|22"]] [[Paiste 505 24" Heavy|24"]] [[Paiste 505 26" Heavy|26"]]<br>
 * '''[[Paiste Heavy Ride|<font color="green">Heavy Ride</font>]]</font> - [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">20"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 22" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">22"</font>]]<br>
+* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Ride|13"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Ride|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Ride|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Ride|22"]]<br>
 ==== Crashes ====
 * '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Crash|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Crash|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Crash|<font color="green">15"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Crash|22"]]<br>
-* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Medium|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Medium|22"]]<br>
 * '''[[Paiste Heavy Crash|<font color="green">Heavy Crash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br>
+* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste 505 10" Medium|10"]] [[Paiste 505 11" Medium|11"]] [[Paiste 505 12" Medium|12"]] [[Paiste 505 13" Medium|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Medium|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Medium|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" Medium|17"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste 505 19" Medium|19"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Medium|20"]] [[Paiste 505 21" Medium|21"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Medium|22"]] [[Paiste 505 24" Medium|24"]] [[Paiste 505 26" Medium|26"]]<br>
+* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste 505 10" Thin|10"]] [[Paiste 505 11" Thin|11"]] [[Paiste 505 12" Thin|12"]] [[Paiste 505 13" Thin|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Thin|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Thin|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Thin|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" Thin|17"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste 505 19" Thin|19"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Thin|20"]] [[Paiste 505 21" Thin|21"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Thin|22"]] [[Paiste 505 24" Thin|24"]] [[Paiste 505 26" Thin|26"]]<br>
 ==== Hi-Hats ====
+* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Heavy Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br>
+* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Hi-Hat|16"]]<br>
 * '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br>
-* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Heavy Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br>
 * '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Sound Edge Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br>
 ==== Chinas ====
 * '''[[Paiste China Type|<font color="green">China Type</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 14" China Type|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" China Type|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" China Type|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br>
-==== Splashes and Bells ====
+==== Splashes ====
 * '''[[Paiste Splash|<font color="green">Splash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 8" Splash|<font color="green">8"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 10" Splash|<font color="green">10"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 12" Splash|<font color="green">12"</font>]]<br>
+==== Other ====
 * '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste 505 12" Marching|12"]] [[Paiste 505 13" Marching|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Marching|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Marching|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Marching|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Marching|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Marching|20"]]<br>
+* '''[[Paiste Marching China Type|Marching China Type]] - [[Paiste 505 15" Marching China Type|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Marching China Type|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" Marching China Type|17"]]<br>
-* '''[[Paiste China Type|Marching China Type]] - [[Paiste 505 15" China Type|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" China Type|17"]]<br>
+* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste 505 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br>
-<b>Initial 505 listing in Paiste's European 1978 catalog (same sizes/weights as Stambul)</b>
-==== Thin/Medium/Heavy ====
-* '''[[Paiste 10" Crash/Ride|10"]] [[Paiste 11" Crash/Ride|11"]] [[Paiste 12" Crash/Ride|12"]] [[Paiste 13" Crash/Ride|13"]] [[Paiste 14" Crash/Ride|14"]] [[Paiste 15" Crash/Ride|15"]] [[Paiste 16" Crash/Ride|16"]] [[Paiste 18" Crash/Ride|18"]] [[Paiste 20" Crash/Ride|20"]] [[Paiste 22" Crash/Ride|22"]]<br>
-==== Hi-Hats ====
-* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Dixie 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Dixie 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Dixie 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] [[Paiste Dixie 16" Hi-Hat|16"]]<br>
-*13" Ride: 13" Green Label rides are seen for sale on the internet every now and then. The ones we have seen are actually restamped Black Label cymbals. Whether the Black Label was originally type stamped as a Ride is debatable. My guess is these are orphaned hi hats or marching cymbals.<br><br>
 <gallery>
-File:12 hvy 505 stambul.jpg| 12" heavy, restamped Stambul
-File:13 ride 505.jpg|505 13" "ride"
 File:Paiste 1978 catalog.jpg|First appearance of 505's in Paiste's '78 catalog, note sizes are the same as the previous Stambul line.
-File:1978 404 505 price list.jpg|'78 European price list showing marching sizes as well.
+File:1978 404 505 price list.jpg|'78 European price list including marching sizes
 File:79 catalog 505.jpg|1979 European catalog.
-File:505 advert.jpg|1983 Expanded lineup.
+File:1985 505 catalog.jpg|1985 catalog listing
-File:505 black label stamp.jpg|Black label with "Swiss made" stamp.
+File:505 advert.jpg|Early 80's Expanded lineup
-File:505 16 ride.jpg|'79 and later double line logo Swiss made 505.
+File:1993 505 price list.jpg|1993 German price list
-File:Stambul 505.jpg|B8 Stambul restamped as Early 505 note: single line logo.
+File:505 black label stamp.jpg|Swiss stamp and black label logo
-File:505 black label 1 line china logo '81 German.jpg|Black label German stamp.
+File:505 1987 german.jpg|'87 German 505 with oddball "Paiste" font
+File:German 505 serial.jpg|German 505 serial# 194708 = ~1979 production
+File:German 505 203998.jpg|German serial# 203998: ~1980 production (black label restamped as Green label)
+File:No serial 505.jpg|No serial number, Swiss Green label 505
+File:505 stambul.jpg|B8 Stambul restamped as Early 505 note: single line logo.
+File:Thin 14 inch bl 657g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 14" thin, serial# 171908 = 1977
+File:Medium 13 inch bl 587g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 13" medium, serial# 170661 = 1977
+File:Heavy 20 inch bl 2159g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 20" heavy, serial# 170603 = 1977
+File:12 hvy 505 stambul.jpg|German 505/Stambul 12" heavy, serial# 175481
+File:505 13 ride.jpg|13" "ride" possibly a restamped black label marching cymbal
+File:505 13 ride bttm.jpg|black label 13" size stamp still visible
+File:505 10 medium.jpg|10" medium, most likely a leftover Stambul
 </gallery>
 ----
-Information from:'''[[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], Todd Little, Dan Garza<br>
+Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], Todd Little, Dan Garza, Boris Smit<br>
 Paiste catalog<br>

Difference between revisions of "Paiste 505"

Latest revision as of 01:32, 4 November 2024

505

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