http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Type85Cymbal - User contributions [en]2026-04-15T08:53:50ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.32.4http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_1000/900&diff=96704Paiste 1000/9002026-03-18T04:55:53Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>== 1000 SERIES HAND & SUSPENDED==<br />
[[File:14 1000.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Standard Finish]]<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:14 1000 hvy.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Reflector Finish]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1982<br><br />
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'''Discontinued:''' 1990<br><br />
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'''Innovation:''' 1000 HAND & SUSPENDED series was a heavy Hand cymbal line, an orchestral/marching cymbal made of CuSn8 bronze (2002 Bronze), professional Level.<br><br />
Available in Standard, Colorsound, and Reflector finishes, the Colorsound coating was applied on the top only, with a reflector finish on the bottom.<br> <br />
Short lived, the 1000 Colorsound versions were eventually replaced by the Colorsound 5's. <br><br />
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'''Alloy:'''[[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
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'''Quality:''' Professional Level<br><br />
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'''Applications:''' orchestral/marching.<br><br />
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'''Users:''' [[Paiste Tommy Lee#Tommy Lee|Tommy Lee]]<br><br />
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* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste 1000 SERIES 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste 1000 SERIES 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste 1000 SERIES 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste 1000 SERIES 20" Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste 1000 SERIES 22" Heavy|22"]]<br><br><br />
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__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== 900 SERIES/900 SERIES Colorsound ==<br />
[[File:900 multi.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Standard Finish]]<br />
[[File:900 SERIES 18 Multi-Purpose 1.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Colorsound Finish]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1982<br><br />
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'''Discontinued:''' 1990<br><br />
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'''Innovation:''' 900 HAND & SUSPENDED series was a medium Hand cymbal line, an orchestral/marching cymbal made of CuSn8 bronze (2002 Bronze), professional Level.<br><br />
Available in Standard, Colorsound, and Reflector finishes, the Colorsound coating was applied on the top only, with a reflector finish on the bottom. Some of the first Colorsounds to be introduced.<br> <br />
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'''Background:''' An orchestral/marching cymbals made of CuSn8 bronze (2002 Bronze) The 900 series was an Medium Hand cymbal line, as much as a Suspended cymbal line. They were also available with COLORSOUND and REFLECTOR finishes. Colorsound finish were available in Red, Blue, Black and Green, for other colors, by custom order directly from Paiste<br><br />
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'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
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'''Applications:''' orchestral/marching<br><br />
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* '''[[Paiste Medium Multi-Purpose|Medium Multi-Purpose]] - 12" [[Paiste 900 SERIES 14" Medium Multi-Purpose|14"]] [[Paiste 900 SERIES 16" Medium Multi-Purpose|16"]] [[Paiste 900 SERIES 18" Medium Multi-Purpose|18"]] [[Paiste 900 SERIES 20" Medium Multi-Purpose|20"]] [[Paiste 900 SERIES 22" Medium Multi-Purpose|22"]] <br><br><br />
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Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:1965_paiste_ludwig_drummer_mag_2.jpg&diff=95685File:1965 paiste ludwig drummer mag 2.jpg2026-02-19T05:36:30Z<p>Type85: Type85 uploaded a new version of File:1965 paiste ludwig drummer mag 2.jpg</p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:1965_paiste_ludwig_drummer_mag_3.jpg&diff=95684File:1965 paiste ludwig drummer mag 3.jpg2026-02-19T05:36:02Z<p>Type85: Type85 uploaded a new version of File:1965 paiste ludwig drummer mag 3.jpg</p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=UFIP_History&diff=93539UFIP History2026-01-28T04:03:05Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>[[File:UFIP.jpg|thumb|right|450px]]<br />
In the early 20th century the "Agati-Tronci" company, a known pipe organ manufacturer, began the production of cymbals, as they were difficult to import from Turkey.<br> <br />
In 1926 a worker for the Tronci family, Fiorello Zanchi, left the company to start a new cymbal manufacturer with Manlio Biasei, the "Zanchi & Biasei" company. A number of cymbals manufacturers were founded in Pistoia after the First World War, starting a competition.<br><br />
A number of cymbals manufacturers were founded in Pistoia after the First World War, starting a competition.<br><br />
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On January 6, 1931 four companies (Marradi-Benti, Zanchi & Biasei, Rosati Leopoldo and A. & B. Fratelli Tronci) founded a cooperative society called UFIP to stop the competition between cymbals manufacturers.<br> <br />
In 1947 Zanchi left UFIP to start his own company, Zanchi (later spelled "Zanki"). In 1968 UFIP changed from a cooperative society to an actual production company.<br><br />
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At the beginning UFIP sold his cymbals under commission of various drums companies, initially with Turkish sounding names such as "Zinjian" (commissioned by Pearl, Ludwig and Premier), "Kashian" (commissioned by Slingerland), "Pasha" (commissioned by Rogers), "Ajaha" (commissioned by Gretsch) and "Super Constantinoples" (commissioned by Dolnet).<br> <br />
In the United States UFIP cymbals were sold as "Atlas" and "Abraxis" until, in the early nineties, the company began to use the "UFIP" name internationally.<br><br />
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UFiP is being distributed in the United States by Davitt & Hanser music.<br />
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'''From Paolo Sburlati, Paiste distributor in Italy:'''<br> <br />
<i> "There were several families in Pistoia, all bronze casters.<br> <br />
The Tronci family produced the big bronze gates at the entrance in Pistoia two centuries ago and they are still there today.<br> <br />
The boss of the families decided to get together and create a big cymbal factory called Unione Fabbricanti Italiani Piatti. All well at the beginning, but typical of hot blooded Tuscan people, they disagreed after short time and each boss went his own way, all creating new cymbal factories: Biasei with Spadaccini created Tosco, Roberto gave birth to Zanki and Luigi kept the name and the Ufip factory. They also started fighting each other on the market and this benefited the competition at the beginning."</i> <br> <br />
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==Why is UFIP important and why are they different?== <br />
[[File:Centrifugal-casting-process.jpg|thumb|right|350px|centrifugal casting]]<br />
UFIP is the second oldest cymbal company (est. 1931) to produce cymbals from B20 bronze.<br> <br />
They are unique because they come from the Italian culture of church bell making or “bronze casters” as they call themselves. They use traditional techniques that have been practiced for several hundred if not a thousand years on casting bronze church bells.<br><br />
UFIP cymbals produced before 1978 or so were cast in cymbal shaped molds standing on edge. That is the Italian gravity casting method. It was after that time (1975-1978) when rotating molds came into general use. UFIP developed the “rotocasting” technique where molten bronze is poured into a spinning mold that is made in the shape of a cymbal: this includes the bell and the “bow” or curve of the cymbal.<br> <br />
This process produces a dense and consistent alloy without inclusions, porosity or defects. This process also creates a different sounding cymbal because it is not hot rolled or cold rolled at any point but it is hammered and lathed (most models).<br><br />
'''For several decades, UFIP was the only other cymbal company (besides Paiste) to make their own gongs.'''<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Ufip.jpg|UFIP!<br />
File:Ufipcopperandblanks.jpg|<br />
File:Ufipfurnace2.jpg|melting furnace<br />
File:Ufippourman.jpg|pouring bronze into the spinning mold<br />
File:Ufipmoldprep.jpg|mold preparation<br />
File:Ufiprawblanks.jpg|freshly cast blanks ready for hammering and lathing<br />
File:Ufiplatheshopfloor.jpg|lathing /finishing room<br />
File:Ufiplathemachine.jpg|lathing room<br />
</gallery><br />
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===What is centrifugal casting and why is it better?===<br />
The process involves using a centrifugal force (high-speed rotation action) to exert pressure on the molten metal, and it is poured from an external source into a spinning die. The centrifugal force acts to distribute the molten metal in the spinning die at pressures close to 100 times the force of gravity. The mold rotates until the whole casting solidifies. Because of the high G-forces involved in this casting method, the less dense materials, including impurities, are forced to go to the inside diameter periphery of the part, which is subsequently removed by machining, and defects related to gas and porosity are reduced.<br><br />
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===UFIP "Rosetta stone":===<br />
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[[File:Ufipbrands.jpg|thumb|center|650px|]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Giant_Beat&diff=93498Paiste Giant Beat2026-01-26T04:41:53Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Giant Beat ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:GB_BL_Stamp.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Giant Beat Black Label Stamp (1973)]]<br />
'''Re-Introduction:''' [[Paiste 2005 Expansion|2005]]<br><br />
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'''Background:''' A resurgence in vintage sounding cymbals was the catalyst in their re-introduction in 2005. <br>We have learned from a 1st. hand account that in the early 2000's there was a custom order placed for a full set of Giant beats by a German drummer who was a Bonham fanatic, at the same time, drummer Steve Jordan was visiting the factory and saw them, he tried and liked them so much he placed a "custom order" set for himself! After several of his drummer friends heard Steve's cymbals, they placed orders as well. It is believed that this new interest in this long discontinued series is what encouraged Paiste to reissue the series!<br><br />
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'''Innovation:''' First "fully professional" cymbal series to be manufactured from the popular B8 Bronze, “2002 Bronze” (Stambul65 was considered a mid line cymbal).<br><br />
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'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
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'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
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'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
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'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
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'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
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'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br><br />
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==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 19" Multi|19"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 21" Multi|21"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 22" Multi|22"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 26" Multi|26"]] <br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Thin|20"]] <br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 16" Hi-Hat|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br><br />
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== Giant Beat vintage ==<br />
[[File:GB white label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The first (white label) emboss had the star, crescent and rays with the "Trade Mark" over the top ray in smaller lettering.<br />
The "Paiste" name was below the star & crescent, with the "Made in Switzerland" under that. A similar logo was used on the Ludwig Standard cymbals around the same time, the difference being "trademark" was replaced with "Ludwig Standard"]]<br />
[[File:Black label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The Black label logo changes: "Paiste" name at very top in large lettering, sun rays, star and crescent under it. The "Trade" and "Mark" were aligned to the outside of the star & crescent where the "Trade" was underneath the "E" in Paiste, and "Mark" was off to the right side of the crescent. The "R. Paiste" signature was under the star & crescent and "Made in Switzerland" was underneath that. This same logo was used on the super formula 602's, and the Rogers distributed 602 Dark ride, it was known as the "plain stamp".]]<br />
[[File:GB full set.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Full set of white label Giant beats]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' [[Paiste 1967 Expansion|1967]] <br><br />
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'''Discontinued:''' [[Paiste 1974 Phase Out|1974]] <br><br />
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'''Background:''' Robert Paiste had started to experiment with B8 alloy as early as 1963, he was looking for a replacement for the then currently used NS12 (Nickel silver) alloy.<br><br />
He first produced the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul65#Stambul65 "Stambul 65"] an upper mid line series that was originally intended to replace the Stambul series (it did not). Because of B8's sound characteristics ( strong midrange, bright high end), he believed this would be the perfect alloy to make cymbals to suit the burgeoning Rock’n’Roll movement and louder amplified music in general.<br><br />
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'''Innovation:''' Paiste's first professional level series to be made from B8 bronze.<br><br />
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'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
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'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
<br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
<br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
<br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br> <br />
[https://youtu.be/amVzlvA1FS0?t=27 <b>Nick Mason playing a full set of "White label" giant beats</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/dx0cHO2Vgro?t=604 <b>Bonham, Sydney 1972 with his "Black label" Giant beats!</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/VHYR1L4fcZk?t=147 <b>Full set of vintage giant beats</b>]<br><br />
<b>The following description was posted in the Paiste 1969 catalog:</b><br />
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"<i>Continuing their search for new cymbal sounds and tone colors, the Paiste Development have now turned their attention to the problems and requirements of Beat Group and Big Band drummers. As the result of extensive consultations between Paiste Technicians and top line drummers in these fields of music, Giant Beat cymbals were evolved.<br><br />
The obvious problem of the Beat or Big Band drummer is competing with the sound of the amplifiers or a large number of musicians around him - GIANT BEAT CYMBALS provide the answer!<br><br />
The production of GIANT BEAT is considerably different to the technique normally employed. Each GIANT BEAT cymbal is passed through a unique hardening process to insure it will stand up to the rigors of continuous heavy playing - this process combined with the way in which the cymbals are shaped, hammered and anodized, finally produces a set of cymbals with a sound capable of cutting through the loudest of Groups or Big Band sections.<br><br />
Although GIANT BEAT cymbals can be purchased individually, they are offered in tuned sets - Matched 15" Hi-hat, 18" Crash and 20" Ride.<br><br />
GIANT BEAT cymbals with their distinctive SOUND, SHAPE AND COLORING are fast growing in popularity - try them soon you will be impressed."</i><br><br />
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<b>The first generation of Giant Beats were printed with semi white ink (white labels) at 9:00 O'clock (see picture gallery below) starting in 1967 until early 1972.<br> <br />
"White labels" are generally considered slightly heavier than their black label successors.<br><br />
The second generation of Giant beats featured Black ink (at 12:00 O'clock) and a slight change to the way they were stamped.</b><br><br />
This series was a concept of multipurpose cymbals. Initially, they consisted of three sizes of cymbals and one size of Hi-Hats (15").<br><br><br />
'''Labeling:''' Originally, Paiste did not designate the type of cymbal with the exception of the Hi-Hats (see Paiste profile 1 pictures below), in some advertising they labeled them "Crash" or "Ride". Ludwig listed the cymbals this way in their catalogs and not as "Multipurpose".<br><br />
At least the 18" was also listed / available in a "Heavy" version, see Nick Mason's profile and Bonham's endorsement deal (pictures below)<br><br><br />
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==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br> <br />
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== History & Identification ==<br />
=== Serial Numbers ===<br />
Giant Beats were stamped with serial numbers beginning in early 1972 (the same as the rest of the Paiste lines) through 1974. The numbering system follows the six digit "Swiss standard": first digit of the serial is the year of manufacture i.e. #3xxxxx was made in 1973. As a rule of thumb, if your Giant beat <b>does not</b> have a serial number, it's definitely a white label (pre 1972).<br> <br />
Also, If the printing is worn off your cymbal, there's two ways to tell the age: the emboss or stamp (early or late version, see above) or if it does or does not have a serial number.<br><br />
If your Giant beat <b>does</b> have a serial number, it's either a very late run white label or a black label, it's safe to say virtually all black labels had serial numbers!<br><br><br />
=== Promotional Items ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Promotional Items" mode="packed">><br />
File:Ludwig giant beat article.jpg|Ludwig magazine 1968 description<br />
File:Paiste 68 magazine flyer BW.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste magazine giant beat ad.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste giant beat.jpg|Paiste giant beat ad from around 1969/70<br />
File:Paiste Catalog 1970.jpg|Paiste Catalog/price list 1970<br />
File:Ludwig 71 paiste 3.jpg|Ludwig/Paiste catalog 1971<br />
File:1973 Ludwig Catalog.jpg|Paiste giant beat & seven sound set - 1973 Ludwig Catalog<br />
File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 3.jpg| English distributor: Dallas Arbiter catalog (pre 2002) 1971-'72<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Famous Giant Beat Setups 1971" mode="packed"><br />
File:Bonham setup.jpg|John Bonham<br />
File:Carmine setup.jpg|Carmine Appice<br />
File:Mason setup.jpg|Nick Mason<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Markings & Logos ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Samples" mode="packed"><br />
File:1974 giant beat.jpg|1974 Serial Number<br />
File:15 GB hats.jpg|15" Hi-Hat White Label<br />
File:15 top hat.jpg|15" Hi-Hat top White Label<br />
File:18 multi black label.jpg|18" Multi Black Label<br />
File:20 multi.jpg|20" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat white label 24.jpg|24" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat wht lbl.jpg| Very clean White Label<br />
File:Black label.jpg|Black Label logo<br />
File:White label logo (2).jpg|White Label logo <br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="New Old Stock (NOS) 1973 Hi-Hat" mode="packed"><br />
File:260645543 10166037434900048 8754300734239293470 n.jpg<br />
File:260551948 10166037434800048 4579497301410171908 n.jpg<br />
File:260685766 10166037434735048 2764427348346417510 n.jpg<br />
File:260690558 10166037434975048 5059951131707932112 n.jpg<br />
File:260807739 10166037435030048 4252849813686990759 n.jpg<br />
File:261220030 10166037435080048 7399860073620558614 n.jpg<br />
File:260553069 10166037435145048 5739846701759965183 n.jpg<br />
File:261094242 10166037435245048 6517023495490859724 n.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
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=== Bonham's use of Giant beats ===<br />
He was by far the most famous drummer to use these cymbals, it's important to understand when he used them and on what albums and tours.<br><br />
In an interview with Cozy Powell (they were friends and toured the English club circuit together), he states that in the late 60's both he and Bonham started using Giant beats (both of them had issues with breaking Zildjians, they didn't with Giant beats).<br> <br />
Cozy also states that Bonham was disappointed when Paiste discontinued the line, this may be the reason for the long delay (mid 1973) before he partially switched to 2002's (he still used a Giant beat ride up until 1976).<br> <br />
In a Freddy Studer interview, he states that Bonham had come to the factory before he had an endorsement deal and bought some Giant beats and 602's.<br />
When Zeppelin went on tour in the U.S. opening for Vanilla fudge (Dec 1968 through early 1969), Carmine Appice helped him get a Ludwig endorsement, most likely he got a new set of 602's along with his new drumset (Ludwig was the U.S. distributor for 602's at that time). [https://youtu.be/k-WSbMW7BPc You can clearly see Bonham using all 602's in the March '69 Danish TV performance.]<br><br />
It is generally agreed that Bonham "mixed and matched" 602's and Giant beats until his endorsement deal (see below) in Feb. of 1970.<br><br />
Photos show that Bonham was using 15" 602 sound edges very early in 1970, he may have switched back and fourth early on between the Giant beat and 602 hi-hats, but after that it looks and sounds like the 602 sound edges were his main hi-hats until the "The song remains the same" U.S. tour in May of 1973 (he then started using all 2002's but kept the 24" Giant beat ride).<br><br />
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'''Album/tour usage'''*:<br><br />
Keep in mind throughout the '70s, Bonham would sometimes use three or even four crashes live, he may have added extra crashes in the studio as well. Below is an educated guess on what Bonham used in the studio based on what he was using live during that period of time and also the sound qualities of the cymbals on the recording.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin I: Unknown, possibly mixing 602's, Giants beats and Zildjians.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin II: Predominately 602's (he got with his thermogloss Ludwig kit) and possibly Giant beats (this was before he had an endorsement deal), this album was mostly recorded while on tour in the U.S in 1969.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin III (and tour): 18", 20", 24" Giant beats, 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well) <br><br />
Led Zeppelin IV (and tour): 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well)<br><br />
Houses of the Holy: 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges (early part of the 1973 European tour shows him using a 16" 2002 for the 1st. time on his far left for a 3rd. crash)<br><br />
The Song remains the same (May 1973 U.S. tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat <br><br />
Physical Graffiti ** (and tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat<br> <br />
(**) important note: half the songs on Physical Graffiti were leftovers from the three previous albums, you can compare the differences in cymbals by listening to some songs back to back e.g: "night flight", (Giant beats/602's) vs. "in the light" (2002's & a Giant beat ride)<br><br />
Presence: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
In through the out door: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
As you can see, on half of the Zeppelin albums he used Giant beats and continued to use his 24" on Physical Graffiti and the subsequent tour in 1975.<br><br />
It wasn't until the last two albums that he used all 2002's with a 20" 602 thrown in for good measure!<br><br />
(*) This chart is based on data from various sources (mostly from picture evidence from live shows and audio examples from studio albums), we have made our best effort to ensure it's accurate but it cannot be guaranteed 100%<br><br />
<b>Special thanks to [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bonhamology-youtube-drummer-led-zeppelin-interview-1365688/?fbclid=IwAR3bUyhgiSKk9zuokW4PF3YcX8jMAvamUVWaKeaG4CaE7Pj8vCNNmFBbXQg George Fludas for the Bonham cymbal research!]</b><br><br />
[https://youtu.be/CZ_ZDAZveR0?t=46 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE CRASHES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/TE1pEcDMQXg?t=564 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE RIDES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/tLHIETY-Qjk BONHAM'S CYMBALS / THE HI-HATS / ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/UGIb1GPB1yk George Fludas/Terry Keating's interview on Bonham's equipment]<br />
[[File:Bonham endorsement.png|thumb|left|850px|Bonham's Paiste endorsement and list of cymbals given to him by date, note: Paiste supplied Bonham an 18" heavy Giant beat in Feb. of '73]]<br><br><br />
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----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], George Fludas, Todd Little, Paul Collier, Dan Garza<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Giant_Beat&diff=93497Paiste Giant Beat2026-01-26T04:40:47Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Giant Beat ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:GB_BL_Stamp.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Giant Beat Black Label Stamp (1973)]]<br />
'''Re-Introduction:''' [[Paiste 2005 Expansion|2005]]<br><br />
<br />
'''Background:''' A resurgence in vintage sounding cymbals was the catalyst in their re-introduction in 2005. <br>We have learned from a 1st. hand account that in the early 2000's there was a custom order placed for a full set of Giant beats by a German drummer who was a Bonham fanatic, at the same time, drummer Steve Jordan was visiting the factory and saw them, he tried and liked them so much he placed a "custom order" set for himself! After several of his drummer friends heard Steve's cymbals, they placed orders as well. It is believed that this new interest in this long discontinued series is what encouraged Paiste to reissue the series!<br><br />
<br />
'''Innovation:''' First "fully professional" cymbal series to be manufactured from the popular B8 Bronze, “2002 Bronze” (Stambul65 was considered a mid line cymbal).<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
<br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
<br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
<br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
<br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br><br />
<br />
==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 19" Multi|19"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 21" Multi|21"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 22" Multi|22"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 26" Multi|26"]] <br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Thin|20"]] <br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 16" Hi-Hat|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br><br />
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== Giant Beat vintage ==<br />
[[File:GB white label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The first (white label) emboss had the star, crescent and rays with the "Trade Mark" over the top ray in smaller lettering.<br />
The "Paiste" name was below the star & crescent, with the "Made in Switzerland" under that. A similar logo was used on the Ludwig Standard cymbals around the same time, the difference being "trademark" was replaced with "Ludwig Standard"]]<br />
[[File:Black label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The Black label logo changes: "Paiste" name at very top in large lettering, sun rays, star and crescent under it. The "Trade" and "Mark" were aligned to the outside of the star & crescent where the "Trade" was underneath the "E" in Paiste, and "Mark" was off to the right side of the crescent. The "R. Paiste" signature was under the star & crescent and "Made in Switzerland" was underneath that. This same logo was used on the super formula 602's, and the Rogers distributed 602 Dark ride, it was known as the "plain stamp".]]<br />
[[File:GB full set.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Full set of white label Giant beats]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' [[Paiste 1967 Expansion|1967]] <br><br />
<br />
'''Discontinued:''' [[Paiste 1974 Phase Out|1974]] <br><br />
<br />
'''Background:''' Robert Paiste had started to experiment with B8 alloy as early as 1963, he was looking for a replacement for the then currently used NS12 (Nickel silver) alloy.<br><br />
He first produced the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul65#Stambul65 "Stambul 65"] an upper mid line series that was originally intended to replace the Stambul series (it did not). Because of B8's sound characteristics ( strong midrange, bright high end), he believed this would be the perfect alloy to make cymbals to suit the burgeoning Rock’n’Roll movement and louder amplified music in general.<br><br />
<br />
'''Innovation:''' Paiste's first professional level series to be made from B8 bronze.<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
<br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
<br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
<br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
<br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br> <br />
[https://youtu.be/amVzlvA1FS0?t=27 <b>Nick Mason playing a full set of "White label" giant beats</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/dx0cHO2Vgro?t=604 <b>Bonham, Sydney 1972 with his "Black label" Giant beats!</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/VHYR1L4fcZk?t=147 <b>Full set of vintage giant beats</b>]<br><br />
<b>The following description was posted in the Paiste 1969 catalog:</b><br />
<br />
"<i>Continuing their search for new cymbal sounds and tone colors, the Paiste Development have now turned their attention to the problems and requirements of Beat Group and Big Band drummers. As the result of extensive consultations between Paiste Technicians and top line drummers in these fields of music, Giant Beat cymbals were evolved.<br><br />
The obvious problem of the Beat or Big Band drummer is competing with the sound of the amplifiers or a large number of musicians around him - GIANT BEAT CYMBALS provide the answer!<br><br />
The production of GIANT BEAT is considerably different to the technique normally employed. Each GIANT BEAT cymbal is passed through a unique hardening process to insure it will stand up to the rigors of continuous heavy playing - this process combined with the way in which the cymbals are shaped, hammered and anodized, finally produces a set of cymbals with a sound capable of cutting through the loudest of Groups or Big Band sections.<br><br />
Although GIANT BEAT cymbals can be purchased individually, they are offered in tuned sets - Matched 15" Hi-hat, 18" Crash and 20" Ride.<br><br />
GIANT BEAT cymbals with their distinctive SOUND, SHAPE AND COLORING are fast growing in popularity - try them soon you will be impressed."</i><br><br />
<br />
<b>The first generation of Giant Beats were printed with semi white ink (white labels) at 9:00 O'clock (see picture gallery below) starting in 1967 until early 1972.<br> <br />
"White labels" are generally considered slightly heavier than their black label successors.<br><br />
The second generation of Giant beats featured Black ink (at 12:00 O'clock) and a slight change to the way they were stamped.</b><br><br />
This series was a concept of multipurpose cymbals. Initially, they consisted of three sizes of cymbals and one size of Hi-Hats (15").<br><br><br />
'''Labeling:''' Originally, Paiste did not designate the type of cymbal with the exception of the Hi-Hats (see Paiste profile 1 pictures below), in some advertising they labeled them "Crash" or "Ride". Ludwig listed the cymbals this way in their catalogs and not as "Multipurpose".<br><br />
At least the 18" was also listed / available in a "Heavy" version, see Nick Mason's profile and Bonham's endorsement deal (pictures below)<br><br><br />
<br />
==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br> <br />
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== History & Identification ==<br />
=== Serial Numbers ===<br />
Giant Beats were stamped with serial numbers beginning in early 1972 (the same as the rest of the Paiste lines) through 1974. The numbering system follows the six digit "Swiss standard": first digit of the serial is the year of manufacture i.e. #3xxxxx was made in 1973. As a rule of thumb, if your Giant beat <b>does not</b> have a serial number, it's definitely a white label (pre 1972).<br> <br />
Also, If the printing is worn off your cymbal, there's two ways to tell the age: the emboss or stamp (early or late version, see above) or if it does or does not have a serial number.<br><br />
If your Giant beat <b>does</b> have a serial number, it's either a very late run white label or a black label, it's safe to say virtually all black labels had serial numbers!<br><br><br />
=== Promotional Items ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Promotional Items" mode="packed">><br />
File:Ludwig giant beat article.jpg|Ludwig magazine 1968 description<br />
File:Paiste 68 magazine flyer BW.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste magazine giant beat ad.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste giant beat.jpg|Paiste giant beat ad from around 1969/70<br />
File:Paiste Catalog 1970.jpg|Paiste Catalog/price list 1970<br />
File:Ludwig 71 paiste 3.jpg|Ludwig/Paiste catalog 1971<br />
File:1973 Ludwig Catalog.jpg|Paiste giant beat & seven sound set - 1973 Ludwig Catalog<br />
File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 3.jpg| English distributor: Dallas Arbiter catalog (pre 2002) 1971-'72<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Famous Giant Beat Setups 1971" mode="packed"><br />
File:Bonham setup.jpg|John Bonham<br />
File:Carmine setup.jpg|Carmine Appice<br />
File:Mason setup.jpg|Nick Mason<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Markings & Logos ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Samples" mode="packed"><br />
File:1974 giant beat.jpg|1974 Serial Number<br />
File:15 GB hats.jpg|15" Hi-Hat White Label<br />
File:15 top hat.jpg|15" Hi-Hat top White Label<br />
File:18 multi black label.jpg|18" Multi Black Label<br />
File:20 multi.jpg|20" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat white label 24.jpg|24" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat wht lbl.jpg| Very clean White Label<br />
File:Black label.jpg|Black Label logo<br />
File:White label logo (2).jpg|White Label logo <br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="New Old Stock (NOS) 1973 Hi-Hat" mode="packed"><br />
File:260645543 10166037434900048 8754300734239293470 n.jpg<br />
File:260551948 10166037434800048 4579497301410171908 n.jpg<br />
File:260685766 10166037434735048 2764427348346417510 n.jpg<br />
File:260690558 10166037434975048 5059951131707932112 n.jpg<br />
File:260807739 10166037435030048 4252849813686990759 n.jpg<br />
File:261220030 10166037435080048 7399860073620558614 n.jpg<br />
File:260553069 10166037435145048 5739846701759965183 n.jpg<br />
File:261094242 10166037435245048 6517023495490859724 n.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
---------<br />
=== Bonham's use of Giant beats ===<br />
He was by far the most famous drummer to use these cymbals, it's important to understand when he used them and on what albums and tours.<br><br />
In an interview with Cozy Powell (they were friends and toured the English club circuit together), he states that in the late 60's both he and Bonham started using Giant beats (both of them had issues with breaking Zildjians, they didn't with Giant beats).<br> <br />
Cozy also states that Bonham was disappointed when Paiste discontinued the line, this may be the reason for the long delay (mid 1973) before he partially switched to 2002's (he still used a Giant beat ride up until 1976).<br> <br />
In a Freddy Studer interview, he states that Bonham had come to the factory before he had an endorsement deal and bought some Giant beats and 602's.<br />
When Zeppelin went on tour in the U.S. opening for Vanilla fudge (Dec 1968 through early 1969), Carmine Appice helped him get a Ludwig endorsement, most likely he got a new set of 602's along with his new drumset (Ludwig was the U.S. distributor for 602's at that time). [https://youtu.be/k-WSbMW7BPc You can clearly see Bonham using all 602's in the March '69 Danish TV performance.]<br><br />
It is generally agreed that Bonham "mixed and matched" 602's and Giant beats until his endorsement deal (see below) in Feb. of 1970.<br><br />
Photos show that Bonham was using 15" 602 sound edges very early in 1970, he may have switched back and fourth early on between the Giant beat and 602 hi-hats, but after that it looks and sounds like the 602 sound edges were his main hi-hats until the "The song remains the same" U.S. tour in May of 1973 (he then started using all 2002's but kept the 24" Giant beat ride).<br><br />
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'''Album/tour usage'''*:<br><br />
Keep in mind throughout the '70s, Bonham would sometimes use three or even four crashes live, he may have added extra crashes in the studio as well. Below is an educated guess on what Bonham used in the studio based on what he was using live during that period of time and also the sound qualities of the cymbals on the recording.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin I: Unknown, possibly mixing 602's, Giants beats and Zildjians.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin II: Predominately 602's (he got with his thermogloss Ludwig kit) and possibly Giant beats (this was before he had an endorsement deal), this album was mostly recorded while on tour in the U.S in 1969.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin III (and tour): 18", 20", 24" Giant beats, 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well) <br><br />
Led Zeppelin IV (and tour): 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well)<br><br />
Houses of the Holy: 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges (early part of the 1973 European tour shows him using a 16" 2002 for the 1st. time on his far left for a 3rd. crash)<br><br />
The Song remains the same (May 1973 U.S. tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat <br><br />
Physical Graffiti ** (and tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat<br> <br />
(**) important note: half the songs on Physical Graffiti were leftovers from the three previous albums, you can compare the differences in cymbals by listening to some songs back to back e.g: "night flight", (Giant beats/602's) vs. "in the light" (2002's & a Giant beat ride)<br><br />
Presence: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
In through the out door: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
As you can see, on half of the Zeppelin albums he used Giant beats and continued to use his 24" on Physical Graffiti and the subsequent tour in 1975.<br><br />
It wasn't until the last two albums that he used all 2002's with a 20" 602 thrown in for good measure!<br><br />
(*) This chart is based on data from various sources (mostly from picture evidence from live shows and audio examples from studio albums), we have made our best effort to ensure it's accurate but it cannot be guaranteed 100%<br><br />
<b>Special thanks to [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bonhamology-youtube-drummer-led-zeppelin-interview-1365688/?fbclid=IwAR3bUyhgiSKk9zuokW4PF3YcX8jMAvamUVWaKeaG4CaE7Pj8vCNNmFBbXQg George Fludas for the Bonham cymbal research!]</b><br><br />
[https://youtu.be/CZ_ZDAZveR0?t=46 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE CRASHES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/TE1pEcDMQXg?t=564 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE RIDES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/tLHIETY-Qjk BONHAM'S CYMBALS / THE HI-HATS / ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/UGIb1GPB1yk George Fludas/Terry Keating's interview on Bonham's equipment]<br />
[[File:Bonham endorsement.png|thumb|left|850px|Bonham's Paiste endorsement and list of cymbals given to him by date, note: Paiste supplied Bonham an 18" heavy Giant beat in Feb. of '73]]<br><br><br />
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----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], George Fludas, Todd Little, Paul Collier, Dan Garza<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Giant_Beat&diff=93496Paiste Giant Beat2026-01-26T04:38:07Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Giant Beat ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:GB_BL_Stamp.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Giant Beat Black Label Stamp (1973)]]<br />
'''Re-Introduction:''' [[Paiste 2005 Expansion|2005]]<br><br />
<br />
'''Background:''' A resurgence in vintage sounding cymbals was the catalyst in their re-introduction in 2005. <br>We have learned from a 1st. hand account that in the early 2000's there was a custom order placed for a full set of Giant beats by a German drummer who was a Bonham fanatic, at the same time, drummer Steve Jordan was visiting the factory and saw them, he tried and liked them so much he placed a "custom order" set for himself! After several of his drummer friends heard Steve's cymbals, they placed orders as well. It is believed that this new interest in this long discontinued series is what encouraged Paiste to reissue the series!<br><br />
<br />
'''Innovation:''' First "fully professional" cymbal series to be manufactured from the popular B8 Bronze, “2002 Bronze” (Stambul65 was considered a mid line cymbal).<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
<br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
<br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
<br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
<br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br><br />
<br />
==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 19" Multi|19"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 21" Multi|21"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 22" Multi|22"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 26" Multi|26"]] <br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Thin|20"]] <br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 16" Hi-Hat|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br><br />
<br><br><br />
<br><br><br />
<br><br><br />
<br />
== Giant Beat vintage ==<br />
[[File:GB white label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The first (white label) emboss had the star, crescent and rays with the "Trade Mark" over the top ray in smaller lettering.<br />
The "Paiste" name was below the star & crescent, with the "Made in Switzerland" under that. A similar logo was used on the Ludwig Standard cymbals around the same time, the difference being "trademark" was replaced with "Ludwig Standard"]]<br />
[[File:Black label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The Black label logo changes: "Paiste" name at very top in large lettering, sun rays, star and crescent under it. The "Trade" and "Mark" were aligned to the outside of the star & crescent where the "Trade" was underneath the "E" in Paiste, and "Mark" was off to the right side of the crescent. The "R. Paiste" signature was under the star & crescent and "Made in Switzerland" was underneath that. This same logo was used on the super formula 602's, and the Rogers distributed 602 Dark ride, it was known as the "plain stamp".]]<br />
[[File:GB full set.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Full set of white label Giant beats]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' [[Paiste 1967 Expansion|1967]] <br><br />
<br />
'''Discontinued:''' [[Paiste 1974 Phase Out|1974]] <br><br />
<br />
'''Background:''' Robert Paiste had started to experiment with B8 alloy as early as 1963, he was looking for a replacement for the then currently used NS12 (Nickel silver) alloy.<br><br />
He first produced the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul65#Stambul65 "Stambul 65"] an upper mid line series that was originally intended to replace the Stambul series (it did not). Because of B8's sound characteristics ( strong midrange, bright high end), he believed this would be the perfect alloy to make cymbals to suit the burgeoning Rock’n’Roll movement and louder amplified music in general.<br><br />
<br />
'''Innovation:''' Paiste's first professional level series to be made from B8 bronze.<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
<br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
<br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
<br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
<br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br> <br />
[https://youtu.be/amVzlvA1FS0?t=27 <b>Nick Mason playing a full set of "White label" giant beats</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/dx0cHO2Vgro?t=604 <b>Bonham, Sydney 1972 with his "Black label" Giant beats!</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/VHYR1L4fcZk?t=147 <b>Full set of vintage giant beats</b>]<br><br />
<b>The following description was posted in the Paiste 1969 catalog:</b><br />
<br />
"<i>Continuing their search for new cymbal sounds and tone colors, the Paiste Development have now turned their attention to the problems and requirements of Beat Group and Big Band drummers. As the result of extensive consultations between Paiste Technicians and top line drummers in these fields of music, Giant Beat cymbals were evolved.<br><br />
The obvious problem of the Beat or Big Band drummer is competing with the sound of the amplifiers or a large number of musicians around him - GIANT BEAT CYMBALS provide the answer!<br><br />
The production of GIANT BEAT is considerably different to the technique normally employed. Each GIANT BEAT cymbal is passed through a unique hardening process to insure it will stand up to the rigors of continuous heavy playing - this process combined with the way in which the cymbals are shaped, hammered and anodized, finally produces a set of cymbals with a sound capable of cutting through the loudest of Groups or Big Band sections.<br><br />
Although GIANT BEAT cymbals can be purchased individually, they are offered in tuned sets - Matched 15" Hi-hat, 18" Crash and 20" Ride.<br><br />
GIANT BEAT cymbals with their distinctive SOUND, SHAPE AND COLORING are fast growing in popularity - try them soon you will be impressed."</i><br><br />
<br />
<b>The first generation of Giant Beats were printed with semi white ink (white labels) at 9:00 O'clock (see picture gallery below) starting in 1967 until early 1972.<br> <br />
"White labels" are generally considered slightly heavier than their black label successors.<br><br />
The second generation of Giant beats featured Black ink (at 12:00 O'clock) and a slight change to the way they were stamped.</b><br><br />
This series was a concept of multipurpose cymbals. Initially, they consisted of three sizes of cymbals and one size of Hi-Hats (15").<br><br><br />
'''Labeling:''' Originally, Paiste did not designate the type of cymbal with the exception of the Hi-Hats (see Paiste profile 1 pictures below), in some advertising they labeled them "Crash" or "Ride". Ludwig listed the cymbals this way in their catalogs and not as "Multipurpose".<br><br />
At least the 18" was also listed / available in a "Heavy" version, see Nick Mason's profile and Bonham's endorsement deal (pictures below)<br><br><br />
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==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br> <br />
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== History & Identification ==<br />
=== Serial Numbers ===<br />
Giant Beats were stamped with serial numbers beginning in early 1972 (the same as the rest of the Paiste lines) through 1974. The numbering system follows the six digit "Swiss standard": first digit of the serial is the year of manufacture i.e. #3xxxxx was made in 1973. As a rule of thumb, if your Giant beat <b>does not</b> have a serial number, it's definitely a white label (pre 1972).<br> <br />
Also, If the printing is worn off your cymbal, there's two ways to tell the age: the emboss or stamp (early or late version, see above) or if it does or does not have a serial number.<br><br />
If your Giant beat <b>does</b> have a serial number, it's either a very late run white label or a black label, it's safe to say virtually all black labels had serial numbers!<br><br><br />
=== Promotional Items ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Promotional Items" mode="packed">><br />
File:Ludwig giant beat article.jpg|Ludwig magazine 1968 description<br />
File:Paiste 68 magazine flyer BW.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste magazine giant beat ad.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste giant beat.jpg|Paiste giant beat ad from around 1969/70<br />
File:Paiste Catalog 1970.jpg|Paiste Catalog/price list 1970<br />
File:Ludwig 71 paiste 3.jpg|Ludwig/Paiste catalog 1971<br />
File:1973 Ludwig Catalog.jpg|Paiste giant beat & seven sound set - 1973 Ludwig Catalog<br />
File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 3.jpg| English distributor: Dallas Arbiter catalog (pre 2002) 1971-'72<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Famous Giant Beat Setups 1971" mode="packed"><br />
File:Bonham setup.jpg|John Bonham<br />
File:Carmine setup.jpg|Carmine Appice<br />
File:Mason setup.jpg|Nick Mason<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Markings & Logos ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Samples" mode="packed"><br />
File:1974 giant beat.jpg|1974 Serial Number<br />
File:15 GB hats.jpg|15" Hi-Hat White Label<br />
File:15 top hat.jpg|15" Hi-Hat top White Label<br />
File:18 multi black label.jpg|18" Multi Black Label<br />
File:20 multi.jpg|20" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat white label 24.jpg|24" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat wht lbl.jpg| Very clean White Label<br />
File:Black label.jpg|Black Label logo<br />
File:White label logo (2).jpg|White Label logo <br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="New Old Stock (NOS) 1973 Hi-Hat" mode="packed"><br />
File:260645543 10166037434900048 8754300734239293470 n.jpg<br />
File:260551948 10166037434800048 4579497301410171908 n.jpg<br />
File:260685766 10166037434735048 2764427348346417510 n.jpg<br />
File:260690558 10166037434975048 5059951131707932112 n.jpg<br />
File:260807739 10166037435030048 4252849813686990759 n.jpg<br />
File:261220030 10166037435080048 7399860073620558614 n.jpg<br />
File:260553069 10166037435145048 5739846701759965183 n.jpg<br />
File:261094242 10166037435245048 6517023495490859724 n.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
---------<br />
=== Bonham's use of Giant beats ===<br />
He was by far the most famous drummer to use these cymbals, it's important to understand when he used them and on what albums and tours.<br><br />
In an interview with Cozy Powell (they were friends and toured the English club circuit together), he states that in the late 60's both he and Bonham started using Giant beats (both of them had issues with breaking Zildjians, they didn't with Giant beats).<br> <br />
Cozy also states that Bonham was disappointed when Paiste discontinued the line, this may be the reason for the long delay (mid 1973) before he partially switched to 2002's (he still used a Giant beat ride up until 1976).<br> <br />
In a Freddy Studer interview, he states that Bonham had come to the factory before he had an endorsement deal and bought some Giant beats and 602's.<br />
When Zeppelin went on tour in the U.S. opening for Vanilla fudge (Dec 1968 through early 1969), Carmine Appice helped him get a Ludwig endorsement, most likely he got a new set of 602's along with his new drumset (Ludwig was the U.S. distributor for 602's at that time). [https://youtu.be/k-WSbMW7BPc You can clearly see Bonham using all 602's in the March '69 Danish TV performance.]<br><br />
It is generally agreed that Bonham "mixed and matched" 602's and Giant beats until his endorsement deal (see below) in Feb. of 1970.<br><br />
Photos show that Bonham was using 15" 602 sound edges very early in 1970, he may have switched back and fourth early on between the Giant beat and 602 hi-hats, but after that it looks and sounds like the 602 sound edges were his main hi-hats until the "The song remains the same" U.S. tour in May of 1973 (he then started using all 2002's but kept the 24" Giant beat ride).<br><br />
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'''Album/tour usage'''*:<br><br />
Keep in mind throughout the '70s, Bonham would sometimes use three or even four crashes live, he may have added extra crashes in the studio as well. Below is an educated guess on what Bonham used in the studio based on what he was using live during that period of time and also the sound qualities of the cymbals on the recording.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin I: Unknown, possibly mixing 602's, Giants beats and Zildjians.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin II: Predominately 602's (he got with his thermogloss Ludwig kit) and possibly Giant beats (this was before he had an endorsement deal), this album was mostly recorded while on tour in the U.S in 1969.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin III (and tour): 18", 20", 24" Giant beats, 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well) <br><br />
Led Zeppelin IV (and tour): 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well)<br><br />
Houses of the Holy: 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges (early part of the 1973 European tour shows him using a 16" 2002 for the 1st. time on his far left for a 3rd. crash)<br><br />
The Song remains the same (May 1973 U.S. tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat <br><br />
Physical Graffiti ** (and tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat<br> <br />
(**) important note: half the songs on Physical Graffiti were leftovers from the three previous albums, you can compare the differences in cymbals by listening to some songs back to back e.g: "night flight", (Giant beats/602's) vs. "in the light" (2002's & a Giant beat ride)<br><br />
Presence: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
In through the out door: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
As you can see, on half of the Zeppelin albums he used Giant beats and continued to use his 24" on Physical Graffiti and the subsequent tour in 1975.<br><br />
It wasn't until the last two albums that he used all 2002's with a 20" 602 thrown in for good measure!<br><br />
(*) This chart is based on data from various sources (mostly from picture evidence from live shows and audio examples from studio albums), we have made our best effort to ensure it's accurate but it cannot be guaranteed 100%<br><br />
<b>Special thanks to [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bonhamology-youtube-drummer-led-zeppelin-interview-1365688/?fbclid=IwAR3bUyhgiSKk9zuokW4PF3YcX8jMAvamUVWaKeaG4CaE7Pj8vCNNmFBbXQg George Fludas for the Bonham cymbal research!]</b><br><br />
[https://youtu.be/CZ_ZDAZveR0?t=46 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE CRASHES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/TE1pEcDMQXg?t=564 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE RIDES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/tLHIETY-Qjk BONHAM'S CYMBALS / THE HI-HATS / ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/UGIb1GPB1yk George Fludas/Terry Keating's interview on Bonham's equipment]<br />
[[File:Bonham endorsement.png|thumb|left|850px|Bonham's Paiste endorsement and list of cymbals given to him by date, note: Paiste supplied Bonham an 18" heavy Giant beat in Feb. of '73]]<br><br><br />
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----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], George Fludas, Todd Little, Paul Collier, Dan Garza<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Giant_Beat&diff=92449Paiste Giant Beat2026-01-07T02:51:39Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Giant Beat ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:GB_BL_Stamp.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Giant Beat Black Label Stamp (1973)]]<br />
[[File:Giant.png|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Re-Introduction:''' [[Paiste 2005 Expansion|2005]]<br><br />
'''Background:''' A resurgence in vintage sounding cymbals was the catalyst in their re-introduction in 2005. <br>We have learned from a 1st. hand account that in the early 2000's there was a custom order placed for a full set of Giant beats by a German drummer who was a Bonham fanatic, at the same time, drummer Steve Jordan was visiting the factory and saw them, he tried and liked them so much he placed a "custom order" set for himself! After several of his drummer friends heard Steve's cymbals, they placed orders as well. It is believed that this new interest in this long discontinued series is what encouraged Paiste to reissue the series!<br><br />
'''Innovation:''' First "fully professional" cymbal series to be manufactured from the popular B8 Bronze, “2002 Bronze” (Stambul65 was considered a mid line cymbal).<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 19" Multi|19"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 21" Multi|21"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 22" Multi|22"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 26" Multi|26"]] <br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Thin|20"]] <br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 16" Hi-Hat|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br><br />
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== Giant Beat vintage ==<br />
[[File:GB white label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The first (white label) emboss had the star, crescent and rays with the "Trade Mark" over the top ray in smaller lettering.<br />
The "Paiste" name was below the star & crescent, with the "Made in Switzerland" under that. A similar logo was used on the Ludwig Standard cymbals around the same time, the difference being "trademark" was replaced with "Ludwig Standard"]]<br />
[[File:Black label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The Black label logo changes: "Paiste" name at very top in large lettering, sun rays, star and crescent under it. The "Trade" and "Mark" were aligned to the outside of the star & crescent where the "Trade" was underneath the "E" in Paiste, and "Mark" was off to the right side of the crescent. The "R. Paiste" signature was under the star & crescent and "Made in Switzerland" was underneath that. This same logo was used on the super formula 602's, and the Rogers distributed 602 Dark ride, it was known as the "plain stamp".]]<br />
[[File:GB full set.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Full set of white label Giant beats]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' [[Paiste 1967 Expansion|1967]] <br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' [[Paiste 1974 Phase Out|1974]] <br><br />
'''Background:''' Robert Paiste had started to experiment with B8 alloy as early as 1963, he was looking for a replacement for the then currently used NS12 (Nickel silver) alloy.<br><br />
He first produced the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul65#Stambul65 "Stambul 65"] an upper mid line series that was originally intended to replace the Stambul series (it did not). Because of B8's sound characteristics ( strong midrange, bright high end), he believed this would be the perfect alloy to make cymbals to suit the burgeoning Rock’n’Roll movement and louder amplified music in general.<br><br />
'''Innovation:''' Paiste's first professional level series to be made from B8 bronze.<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br> <br />
[https://youtu.be/amVzlvA1FS0?t=27 <b>Nick Mason playing a full set of "White label" giant beats</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/dx0cHO2Vgro?t=604 <b>Bonham, Sydney 1972 with his "Black label" Giant beats!</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/VHYR1L4fcZk?t=147 <b>Full set of vintage giant beats</b>]<br><br />
<b>The following description was posted in the Paiste 1969 catalog:</b><br />
"<i>Continuing their search for new cymbal sounds and tone colors, the Paiste Development have now turned their attention to the problems and requirements of Beat Group and Big Band drummers. As the result of extensive consultations between Paiste Technicians and top line drummers in these fields of music, Giant Beat cymbals were evolved.<br><br />
The obvious problem of the Beat or Big Band drummer is competing with the sound of the amplifiers or a large number of musicians around him - GIANT BEAT CYMBALS provide the answer!<br><br />
The production of GIANT BEAT is considerably different to the technique normally employed. Each GIANT BEAT cymbal is passed through a unique hardening process to insure it will stand up to the rigors of continuous heavy playing - this process combined with the way in which the cymbals are shaped, hammered and anodized, finally produces a set of cymbals with a sound capable of cutting through the loudest of Groups or Big Band sections.<br><br />
Although GIANT BEAT cymbals can be purchased individually, they are offered in tuned sets - Matched 15" Hi-hat, 18" Crash and 20" Ride.<br><br />
GIANT BEAT cymbals with their distinctive SOUND, SHAPE AND COLORING are fast growing in popularity - try them soon you will be impressed."</i><br><br />
<b>The first generation of Giant Beats were printed with semi white ink (white labels) at 9:00 O'clock (see picture gallery below) starting in 1967 until early 1972.<br> <br />
"White labels" are generally considered slightly heavier than their black label successors.<br><br />
The second generation of Giant beats featured Black ink (at 12:00 O'clock) and a slight change to the way they were stamped.</b><br><br />
This series was a concept of multipurpose cymbals. Initially, they consisted of three sizes of cymbals and one size of Hi-Hats (15").<br><br><br />
'''Labelling:''' Originally, Paiste did not designate the type of cymbal with the exception of the Hi-Hats (see Paiste profile 1 pictures below), in some advertising they labeled them "Crash" or "Ride". Ludwig listed the cymbals this way in their catalogs and not as "Multipurpose".<br><br />
At least the 18" was also listed / available in a "Heavy" version, see Nick Mason's profile and Bonham's endorsement deal (pictures below)<br><br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br> <br />
== History & Identification ==<br />
=== Serial Numbers ===<br />
Giant Beats were stamped with serial numbers beginning in early 1972 (the same as the rest of the Paiste lines) through 1974. The numbering system follows the six digit "Swiss standard": first digit of the serial is the year of manufacture i.e. #3xxxxx was made in 1973. As a rule of thumb, if your Giant beat <b>does not</b> have a serial number, it's definitely a white label (pre 1972).<br> <br />
Also, If the printing is worn off your cymbal, there's two ways to tell the age: the emboss or stamp (early or late version, see above) or if it does or does not have a serial number.<br><br />
If your Giant beat <b>does</b> have a serial number, it's either a very late run white label or a black label, it's safe to say virtually all black labels had serial numbers!<br><br><br />
=== Promotional Items ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Promotional Items" mode="packed">><br />
File:Ludwig giant beat article.jpg|Ludwig magazine 1968 description<br />
File:Paiste 68 magazine flyer BW.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste magazine giant beat ad.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste giant beat.jpg|Paiste giant beat ad from around 1969/70<br />
File:Paiste Catalog 1970.jpg|Paiste Catalog/price list 1970<br />
File:Ludwig 71 paiste 3.jpg|Ludwig/Paiste catalog 1971<br />
File:1973 Ludwig Catalog.jpg|Paiste giant beat & seven sound set - 1973 Ludwig Catalog<br />
File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 3.jpg| English distributor: Dallas Arbiter catalog (pre 2002) 1971-'72<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Famous Giant Beat Setups 1971" mode="packed"><br />
File:Bonham setup.jpg|John Bonham<br />
File:Carmine setup.jpg|Carmine Appice<br />
File:Mason setup.jpg|Nick Mason<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Markings & Logos ===<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Giant Beat Samples" mode="packed"><br />
File:1974 giant beat.jpg|1974 Serial Number<br />
File:15 GB hats.jpg|15" Hi-Hat White Label<br />
File:15 top hat.jpg|15" Hi-Hat top White Label<br />
File:18 multi black label.jpg|18" Multi Black Label<br />
File:20 multi.jpg|20" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat white label 24.jpg|24" Multi White Label<br />
File:Giant beat wht lbl.jpg| Very clean White Label<br />
File:Black label.jpg|Black Label logo<br />
File:White label logo (2).jpg|White Label logo <br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="New Old Stock (NOS) 1973 Hi-Hat" mode="packed"><br />
File:260645543 10166037434900048 8754300734239293470 n.jpg<br />
File:260551948 10166037434800048 4579497301410171908 n.jpg<br />
File:260685766 10166037434735048 2764427348346417510 n.jpg<br />
File:260690558 10166037434975048 5059951131707932112 n.jpg<br />
File:260807739 10166037435030048 4252849813686990759 n.jpg<br />
File:261220030 10166037435080048 7399860073620558614 n.jpg<br />
File:260553069 10166037435145048 5739846701759965183 n.jpg<br />
File:261094242 10166037435245048 6517023495490859724 n.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
---------<br />
=== Bonham's use of Giant beats ===<br />
He was by far the most famous drummer to use these cymbals, it's important to understand when he used them and on what albums and tours.<br><br />
In an interview with Cozy Powell (they were friends and toured the English club circuit together), he states that in the late 60's both he and Bonham started using Giant beats (both of them had issues with breaking Zildjians, they didn't with Giant beats).<br> <br />
Cozy also states that Bonham was disappointed when Paiste discontinued the line, this may be the reason for the long delay (mid 1973) before he partially switched to 2002's (he still used a Giant beat ride up until 1976).<br> <br />
In a Freddy Studer interview, he states that Bonham had come to the factory before he had an endorsement deal and bought some Giant beats and 602's.<br />
When Zeppelin went on tour in the U.S. opening for Vanilla fudge (Dec 1968 through early 1969), Carmine Appice helped him get a Ludwig endorsement, most likely he got a new set of 602's along with his new drumset (Ludwig was the U.S. distributor for 602's at that time). [https://youtu.be/k-WSbMW7BPc You can clearly see Bonham using all 602's in the March '69 Danish TV performance.]<br><br />
It is generally agreed that Bonham "mixed and matched" 602's and Giant beats until his endorsement deal (see below) in Feb. of 1970.<br><br />
Photos show that Bonham was using 15" 602 sound edges very early in 1970, he may have switched back and fourth early on between the Giant beat and 602 hi-hats, but after that it looks and sounds like the 602 sound edges were his main hi-hats until the "The song remains the same" U.S. tour in May of 1973 (he then started using all 2002's but kept the 24" Giant beat ride).<br><br />
<br />
'''Album/tour usage'''*:<br><br />
Keep in mind throughout the '70s, Bonham would sometimes use three or even four crashes live, he may have added extra crashes in the studio as well. Below is an educated guess on what Bonham used in the studio based on what he was using live during that period of time and also the sound qualities of the cymbals on the recording.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin I: Unknown, possibly mixing 602's, Giants beats and Zildjians.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin II: Predominately 602's (he got with his thermogloss Ludwig kit) and possibly Giant beats (this was before he had an endorsement deal), this album was mostly recorded while on tour in the U.S in 1969.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin III (and tour): 18", 20", 24" Giant beats, 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well) <br><br />
Led Zeppelin IV (and tour): 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well)<br><br />
Houses of the Holy: 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges (early part of the 1973 European tour shows him using a 16" 2002 for the 1st. time on his far left for a 3rd. crash)<br><br />
The Song remains the same (May 1973 U.S. tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat <br><br />
Physical Graffiti ** (and tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat<br> <br />
(**) important note: half the songs on Physical Graffiti were leftovers from the three previous albums, you can compare the differences in cymbals by listening to some songs back to back e.g: "night flight", (Giant beats/602's) vs. "in the light" (2002's & a Giant beat ride)<br><br />
Presence: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
In through the out door: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
As you can see, on half of the Zeppelin albums he used Giant beats and continued to use his 24" on Physical Graffiti and the subsequent tour in 1975.<br><br />
It wasn't until the last two albums that he used all 2002's with a 20" 602 thrown in for good measure!<br><br />
(*) This chart is based on data from various sources (mostly from picture evidence from live shows and audio examples from studio albums), we have made our best effort to ensure it's accurate but it cannot be guaranteed 100%<br><br />
<b>Special thanks to [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bonhamology-youtube-drummer-led-zeppelin-interview-1365688/?fbclid=IwAR3bUyhgiSKk9zuokW4PF3YcX8jMAvamUVWaKeaG4CaE7Pj8vCNNmFBbXQg George Fludas for the Bonham cymbal research!]</b><br><br />
[https://youtu.be/CZ_ZDAZveR0?t=46 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE CRASHES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/TE1pEcDMQXg?t=564 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE RIDES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/tLHIETY-Qjk BONHAM'S CYMBALS / THE HI-HATS / ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/UGIb1GPB1yk George Fludas/Terry Keating's interview on Bonham's equipment]<br />
[[File:Bonham endorsement.png|thumb|left|850px|Bonham's Paiste endorsement and list of cymbals given to him by date, note: Paiste supplied Bonham an 18" heavy Giant beat in Feb. of '73]]<br><br><br />
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----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], George Fludas, Todd Little, Paul Collier, Dan Garza<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602_24%22_Thin&diff=92448Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin2026-01-07T01:17:04Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 3.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 1.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 4.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Group:''' [[Paiste Cymbal Type#Crashes|Thin]]<br><br />
'''Type:''' [[Paiste Thin|Thin]]<br><br />
'''Size:''' 24 Inch<br><br />
'''Series:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]]<br><br />
'''Weight:''' 2854g (1972 serial) 3064g (Pre-Serial), 3070g (1973 Serial Number), 3120g (Pre-Serial), 3138g, 3150g, 3184g (1973 Serial Number), 3250g (1974 Serial Number)<br><br />
'''Median Weight:''' 3138g (n=7)<br><br />
'''Years of production:''' 1970 - (last listed in 1977 catalog)<br><br />
'''Sound file:''' unknown <br><br />
'''Paiste's Description:''' [[Paiste Thin#Formula 602|<<< - >>>]]<br><br />
'''Review:''' <br><br />
Review written by <br><br />
<br />
'''Artist/song where it can be heard:''' unknown</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602_18%22_Thin&diff=91435Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin2025-12-25T03:11:32Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:Paiste 602 18 Thin.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
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'''Group:''' [[Paiste Cymbal Type#Crashes|Crashes]]<br><br />
'''Type:''' [[Paiste Thin|Thin]]<br><br />
'''Size:''' 18 Inch<br><br />
'''Series:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]]<br><br />
'''Weight:''' 1123g (1977 Serial Number), 1532g (1979 Serial Number), 1555g<br><br />
'''Median Weight:''' 1532g (n=3)<br><br />
'''Years of production:''' [[Paiste 1959 Expansion|1959]] - (last listed in 1976 catalog)<br><br />
'''Sound file:''' unknown<br><br />
'''Paiste's Description:''' [[Paiste Thin#Formula 602|<<< - >>>]]<br><br />
'''Review:''' <br><br />
:Review written by <br><br />
'''Artist/song where it can be heard:''' [[Paiste Bobby Christian#Bobby Christian|Bobby Christian]], [[Paiste Evert Fraterman#Evert Fraterman|Evert Fraterman]], [[Paiste Sonny Freeman#Sonny Freeman|Sonny Freeman]], [[Paiste Vladimir Furduy#Vladimir Furduy|Vladimir Furduy]], [[Paiste Heinrich Hock#Heinrich Hock|Heinrich Hock]], [[Paiste Ronald Howden#Ronald Howden|Ronald Howden]], [[Paiste Huub Janssen#Huub Janssen|Huub Janssen]], [[Paiste Egil Johansen#Egil Johansen|Egil Johansen]], [[Roy McCurdy]], [[Paiste Matti Oiling#Matti Oiling|Matti Oiling]], [[Portinho]], [[Paiste Alex Riel#Alex Riel|Alex Riel]], [[Paiste Warren Smith#Warren Smith|Warren Smith]], [[Paiste Robert Townsend#Robert Townsend|Robert Townsend]], [[Paiste Charlie Watts#Charlie Watts|Charlie Watts]], [[Roger Wollaert]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_505&diff=91350Paiste 5052025-12-24T06:07:16Z<p>Type85: </p>
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== 505 ==<br />
[[File:Swiss 505 logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label Swiss stamp.]]<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:German 505 logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label German stamp.]]<br />
[[File:505 swiss logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 Swiss Logo]]<br />
[[File:505 green stamp.jpg|thumb|right|250px|'81 and later German green stamp]]<br />
[[File:505 german hollow cresent.jpg|thumb|right|250px|German "hollow crescent"]]<br />
[[file:505 1984 serial.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 stamp above Swiss serial number]]<br />
<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1978 <br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1986 (German factory offered 505s until 1993!)<br><br />
'''Background:''' The successor to the long-running Stambul series, Paiste 505's were released to the public in 1978 and slotted in under the 2002.<br> <br />
There are definitely oddball sizes and types out there that were produced during the transition from the Stambul B8 line and cymbals with both a Stambul emboss and a 505 hand stamp logo exist (see pictures below).<br> <br />
Early Swiss-made Black Label 505's have a single line hand stamp which was later changed to a double line stamp mirroring the 2002 logo, probably in the latter part of 1978 or early in 1979. German-made Black Label 505's always have a single line hand stamp, also the German factory used a different serial numbering system than the Swiss factory, see [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers#.2A.2AGerman_serial_numbers.2A.2A '''"Deciphering German serial numbers"'''].<br> <br />
The transition to the Green Label silk screened logo begins in 1981. There are a substantial amount of Green Label 505's out there with no serial number.<br> <br />
At least some German Green Label 505's made in 1983 have a logo variant with a hollow crescent moon and star (picture on lower right).<br><br />
The line gains new sizes, types and weights during the Green Label phase before it is discontinued in 1986 (The German factory continued to offer 505's in their catalogs until 1993, most likely leftovers) and replaced in price point by the 1000 series and in sound and quality by the 2000 series.<br> <br />
According to an interview with Toomas Paiste, there were two reasons Paiste changed up the B8 lines in 1986:<br><br />
1. To introduce the innovations in the 3000 line (new lathing, etc.). <br><br />
2. To get the quality of the budget series in line with prices (more importantly according to Toomas). <br><br />
The 505's were "too good" for what Paiste was selling them for: they were 35% cheaper than an equivalent 2002 but required almost the same amount of hand labor to produce.<br><br />
<b>U.S. availability:</b><br />
*Rogers never listed 505's in their catalogs or distributed them in the U.S. from 1978 to 1980 (no black label 505's were sold in the U.S.)<br> <br />
*505's were not available in the U.S until ~1981 when Paiste opened their North American distribution center, by then they had the printed "green stamp" logo along with an expanded selection of models and sizes.<br> <br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' "A truly affordable pro-quality cymbal at the student or semi-pro level. Paiste experience, craftsmanship and understanding of choice materials give these cymbals many professional features".<br><br />
'''Production:''' These cymbals were fully hammered into shape, not stamped, the same production techniques were used as on the top line cymbals.<br><br />
'''Applications:''' All types of music, particularly pop and rock.<br><br />
'''Sound:''' "505 cymbals produce a fully resonant, vibrant sound. They are developed to provide the drummer with a good quality cymbal. All Paiste 505 cymbals give a true professional cymbal sound with clear character definition.<br />
The ride cymbals have strong definite stick-rhythm sound. The multi-purpose medium cymbals can be used for loud, forceful crash or gentle ride effects, crash cymbals give compact, cutting accents."<br><br />
<b>Early 80's "Green label" models and size additions can be seen in <font color="green">green</font> below:</b><br><br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Ride|<font color="green">Heavy Ride</font>]]</font> - [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">20"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 22" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">22"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Ride|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Ride|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Ride|22"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Crash|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Crash|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Crash|<font color="green">15"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Crash|<font color="green">Heavy Crash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Medium|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Medium|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Heavy Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Sound Edge Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Chinas ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|<font color="green">China Type</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" China Type|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" China Type|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" China Type|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" China Type|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Splashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|<font color="green">Splash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 8" Splash|<font color="green">8"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 10" Splash|<font color="green">10"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 12" Splash|<font color="green">12"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste 505 12" Marching|12"]] [[Paiste 505 13" Marching|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Marching|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Marching|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Marching|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Marching|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Marching|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type Marching|China Type Marching]] - [[Paiste 505 15" China Type Marching|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type Marching|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" China Type Marching|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste 505 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste 1978 catalog.jpg|First appearance of 505's in Paiste's '78 catalog, note sizes are the same as the previous Stambul line.<br />
File:1978 404 505 price list.jpg|'78 European price list including marching sizes<br />
File:79 catalog 505.jpg|1979 European catalog.<br />
File:1985 505 catalog.jpg|1985 catalog listing<br />
File:505 advert.jpg|Early 80's Expanded lineup<br />
File:1993 505 price list.jpg|1993 German price list<br />
File:505 black label stamp.jpg|Swiss stamp and black label logo<br />
File:505 1987 german.jpg|'87 German 505 with oddball "Paiste" font<br />
File:German 505 serial.jpg|German 505 serial# 194708 = ~1979 production<br />
File:505 Stamp and Logo.jpg|"double stamp"<br />
File:German 505 203998.jpg|German serial# 203998: ~1980 production (black label restamped as Green label)<br />
File:No serial 505.jpg|No serial number, Swiss Green label 505<br />
File:505 stambul.jpg|B8 Stambul restamped as Early 505 note: single line logo.<br />
File:Thin 14 inch bl 657g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 14" thin, serial# 171908 = 1977<br />
File:Medium 13 inch bl 587g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 13" medium, serial# 170661 = 1977<br />
File:Heavy 20 inch bl 2159g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 20" heavy, serial# 170603 = 1977<br />
File:12 hvy 505 stambul.jpg|German 505/Stambul 12" heavy, serial# 175481<br />
File:505 13 ride.jpg|13" "ride" possibly a restamped black label marching cymbal<br />
File:505 13 ride bttm.jpg|black label 13" size stamp still visible<br />
File:505 10 medium.jpg|10" medium, most likely a leftover Stambul<br />
</gallery><br />
----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], Todd Little, Dan Garza, Boris Smit<br><br />
1979 Paiste catalog<br><br />
1985 Paiste catalog<br><br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_505&diff=91349Paiste 5052025-12-24T06:05:07Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== 505 ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:505 logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 Logo]]<br />
[[File:Swiss 505 logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label Swiss stamp.]]<br />
[[File:German 505 logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label German stamp.]]<br />
[[File:505 swiss logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 Swiss Logo]]<br />
[[File:505 green stamp.jpg|thumb|right|250px|'81 and later German green stamp]]<br />
[[File:505 german hollow cresent.jpg|thumb|right|250px|German "hollow crescent"]]<br />
[[file:505 1984 serial.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 stamp above Swiss serial number]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1978 <br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1986 (German factory offered 505s until 1993!)<br><br />
'''Background:''' The successor to the long-running Stambul series, Paiste 505's were released to the public in 1978 and slotted in under the 2002.<br> <br />
There are definitely oddball sizes and types out there that were produced during the transition from the Stambul B8 line and cymbals with both a Stambul emboss and a 505 hand stamp logo exist (see pictures below).<br> <br />
Early Swiss-made Black Label 505's have a single line hand stamp which was later changed to a double line stamp mirroring the 2002 logo, probably in the latter part of 1978 or early in 1979. German-made Black Label 505's always have a single line hand stamp, also the German factory used a different serial numbering system than the Swiss factory, see [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers#.2A.2AGerman_serial_numbers.2A.2A '''"Deciphering German serial numbers"'''].<br> <br />
The transition to the Green Label silk screened logo begins in 1981. There are a substantial amount of Green Label 505's out there with no serial number.<br> <br />
At least some German Green Label 505's made in 1983 have a logo variant with a hollow crescent moon and star (picture on lower right).<br><br />
The line gains new sizes, types and weights during the Green Label phase before it is discontinued in 1986 (The German factory continued to offer 505's in their catalogs until 1993, most likely leftovers) and replaced in price point by the 1000 series and in sound and quality by the 2000 series.<br> <br />
According to an interview with Toomas Paiste, there were two reasons Paiste changed up the B8 lines in 1986:<br><br />
1. To introduce the innovations in the 3000 line (new lathing, etc.). <br><br />
2. To get the quality of the budget series in line with prices (more importantly according to Toomas). <br><br />
The 505's were "too good" for what Paiste was selling them for: they were 35% cheaper than an equivalent 2002 but required almost the same amount of hand labor to produce.<br><br />
<b>U.S. availability:</b><br />
*Rogers never listed 505's in their catalogs or distributed them in the U.S. from 1978 to 1980 (no black label 505's were sold in the U.S.)<br> <br />
*505's were not available in the U.S until ~1981 when Paiste opened their North American distribution center, by then they had the printed "green stamp" logo along with an expanded selection of models and sizes.<br> <br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' "A truly affordable pro-quality cymbal at the student or semi-pro level. Paiste experience, craftsmanship and understanding of choice materials give these cymbals many professional features".<br><br />
'''Production:''' These cymbals were fully hammered into shape, not stamped, the same production techniques were used as on the top line cymbals.<br><br />
'''Applications:''' All types of music, particularly pop and rock.<br><br />
'''Sound:''' "505 cymbals produce a fully resonant, vibrant sound. They are developed to provide the drummer with a good quality cymbal. All Paiste 505 cymbals give a true professional cymbal sound with clear character definition.<br />
The ride cymbals have strong definite stick-rhythm sound. The multi-purpose medium cymbals can be used for loud, forceful crash or gentle ride effects, crash cymbals give compact, cutting accents."<br><br />
<b>Early 80's "Green label" models and size additions can be seen in <font color="green">green</font> below:</b><br><br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Ride|<font color="green">Heavy Ride</font>]]</font> - [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">20"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 22" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">22"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Ride|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Ride|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Ride|22"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Crash|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Crash|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Crash|<font color="green">15"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Crash|<font color="green">Heavy Crash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Medium|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Medium|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Heavy Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Sound Edge Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Chinas ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|<font color="green">China Type</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" China Type|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" China Type|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" China Type|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" China Type|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Splashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|<font color="green">Splash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 8" Splash|<font color="green">8"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 10" Splash|<font color="green">10"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 12" Splash|<font color="green">12"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste 505 12" Marching|12"]] [[Paiste 505 13" Marching|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Marching|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Marching|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Marching|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Marching|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Marching|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type Marching|China Type Marching]] - [[Paiste 505 15" China Type Marching|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type Marching|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" China Type Marching|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste 505 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste 1978 catalog.jpg|First appearance of 505's in Paiste's '78 catalog, note sizes are the same as the previous Stambul line.<br />
File:1978 404 505 price list.jpg|'78 European price list including marching sizes<br />
File:79 catalog 505.jpg|1979 European catalog.<br />
File:1985 505 catalog.jpg|1985 catalog listing<br />
File:505 advert.jpg|Early 80's Expanded lineup<br />
File:1993 505 price list.jpg|1993 German price list<br />
File:505 black label stamp.jpg|Swiss stamp and black label logo<br />
File:505 1987 german.jpg|'87 German 505 with oddball "Paiste" font<br />
File:German 505 serial.jpg|German 505 serial# 194708 = ~1979 production<br />
File:505 Stamp and Logo.jpg|"double stamp"<br />
File:German 505 203998.jpg|German serial# 203998: ~1980 production (black label restamped as Green label)<br />
File:No serial 505.jpg|No serial number, Swiss Green label 505<br />
File:505 stambul.jpg|B8 Stambul restamped as Early 505 note: single line logo.<br />
File:Thin 14 inch bl 657g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 14" thin, serial# 171908 = 1977<br />
File:Medium 13 inch bl 587g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 13" medium, serial# 170661 = 1977<br />
File:Heavy 20 inch bl 2159g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 20" heavy, serial# 170603 = 1977<br />
File:12 hvy 505 stambul.jpg|German 505/Stambul 12" heavy, serial# 175481<br />
File:505 13 ride.jpg|13" "ride" possibly a restamped black label marching cymbal<br />
File:505 13 ride bttm.jpg|black label 13" size stamp still visible<br />
File:505 10 medium.jpg|10" medium, most likely a leftover Stambul<br />
</gallery><br />
----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], Todd Little, Dan Garza, Boris Smit<br><br />
1979 Paiste catalog<br><br />
1985 Paiste catalog<br><br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_505&diff=91348Paiste 5052025-12-24T06:02:19Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== 505 ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:505 logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 Logo]]<br />
[[File:Swiss 505 logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label Swiss stamp.]]<br />
[[File:German 505 logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Black label German stamp.]]<br />
[[File:505 swiss logo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 Swiss Logo]]<br />
[[File:505 green stamp.jpg|thumb|right|250px|'81 and later German green stamp]]<br />
[[File:505 german hollow cresent.jpg|thumb|right|250px|German "hollow crescent"]]<br />
[[file:505 1984 serial.jpg|thumb|right|250px|505 stamp above Swiss serial number]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1978 <br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1986 (German factory offered 505s until 1993!)<br><br />
'''Background:''' The successor to the long-running Stambul series, Paiste 505's were released to the public in 1978 and slotted in under the 2002.<br> <br />
There are definitely oddball sizes and types out there that were produced during the transition from the Stambul B8 line and cymbals with both a Stambul emboss and a 505 hand stamp logo exist (see pictures below).<br> <br />
Early Swiss-made Black Label 505's have a single line hand stamp which was later changed to a double line stamp mirroring the 2002 logo, probably in the latter part of 1978 or early in 1979. German-made Black Label 505's always have a single line hand stamp, also the German factory used a different serial numbering system than the Swiss factory, see [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers#.2A.2AGerman_serial_numbers.2A.2A '''"Deciphering German serial numbers"'''].<br> <br />
The transition to the Green Label silk screened logo begins in 1981. There are a substantial amount of Green Label 505's out there with no serial number.<br> <br />
At least some German Green Label 505's made in 1983 have a logo variant with a hollow crescent moon and star (picture on lower right).<br><br />
The line gains new sizes, types and weights during the Green Label phase before it is discontinued in 1986 (The German factory continued to offer 505's in their catalogs until 1993, most likely leftovers) and replaced in price point by the 1000 series and in sound and quality by the 2000 series.<br> <br />
According to an interview with Toomas Paiste, there were two reasons Paiste changed up the B8 lines in 1986:<br><br />
1. To introduce the innovations in the 3000 line (new lathing, etc.). <br><br />
2. To get the quality of the budget series in line with prices (more importantly according to Toomas). <br><br />
The 505's were "too good" for what Paiste was selling them for: they were 35% cheaper than an equivalent 2002 but required almost the same amount of hand labor to produce.<br><br />
<b>U.S. availability:</b><br />
*Rogers never listed 505's in their catalogs or distributed them in the U.S. from 1978 to 1980 (no black label 505's were sold in the U.S.)<br> <br />
*505's were not available in the U.S until ~1981 when Paiste opened their North American distribution center, by then they had the printed "green stamp" logo along with an expanded selection of models and sizes.<br> <br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' "A truly affordable pro-quality cymbal at the student or semi-pro level. Paiste experience, craftsmanship and understanding of choice materials give these cymbals many professional features".<br><br />
'''Production:''' These cymbals were fully hammered into shape, not stamped, the same production techniques were used as on the top line cymbals.<br><br />
'''Applications:''' All types of music, particularly pop and rock.<br><br />
'''Sound:''' "505 cymbals produce a fully resonant, vibrant sound. They are developed to provide the drummer with a good quality cymbal. All Paiste 505 cymbals give a true professional cymbal sound with clear character definition.<br />
The ride cymbals have strong definite stick-rhythm sound. The multi-purpose medium cymbals can be used for loud, forceful crash or gentle ride effects, crash cymbals give compact, cutting accents."<br><br />
<b>Early 80's "Green label" models and size additions can be seen in <font color="green">green</font> below:</b><br><br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Ride|<font color="green">Heavy Ride</font>]]</font> - [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">20"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 22" Heavy Ride|<font color="green">22"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Ride|13"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Ride|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Ride|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Ride|22"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Crash|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Crash|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Crash|<font color="green">15"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Crash|<font color="green">Heavy Crash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" Heavy Crash|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste 505 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Medium|20"]] [[Paiste 505 22" Medium|22"]]<br><br />
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==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Heavy Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">13"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste 505 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">Sound Edge Hi-Hat</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|<font color="green">15"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Chinas ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|<font color="green">China Type</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 13" China Type|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" China Type|<font color="green">14"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type|<font color="green">16"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 18" China Type|<font color="green">18"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 20" China Type|<font color="green">20"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Splashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|<font color="green">Splash</font>]] - [[Paiste 505 8" Splash|<font color="green">8"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 10" Splash|<font color="green">10"</font>]] [[Paiste 505 12" Splash|<font color="green">12"</font>]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste 505 12" Marching|12"]] [[Paiste 505 13" Marching|13"]] [[Paiste 505 14" Marching|14"]] [[Paiste 505 15" Marching|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" Marching|16"]] [[Paiste 505 18" Marching|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Marching|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type Marching|China Type Marching]] - [[Paiste 505 15" China Type Marching|15"]] [[Paiste 505 16" China Type Marching|16"]] [[Paiste 505 17" China Type Marching|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste 505 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste 505 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste 1978 catalog.jpg|First appearance of 505's in Paiste's '78 catalog, note sizes are the same as the previous Stambul line.<br />
File:1978 404 505 price list.jpg|'78 European price list including marching sizes<br />
File:79 catalog 505.jpg|1979 European catalog.<br />
File:1985 505 catalog.jpg|1985 catalog listing<br />
File:505 advert.jpg|Early 80's Expanded lineup<br />
File:1993 505 price list.jpg|1993 German price list<br />
File:505 black label stamp.jpg|Swiss stamp and black label logo<br />
File:505 1987 german.jpg|'87 German 505 with oddball "Paiste" font<br />
File:German 505 serial.jpg|German 505 serial# 194708 = ~1979 production<br />
File:505 Stamp and Logo.jpg|"double stamp"<br />
File:German 505 203998.jpg|German serial# 203998: ~1980 production (black label restamped as Green label)<br />
File:No serial 505.jpg|No serial number, Swiss Green label 505<br />
File:505 stambul.jpg|B8 Stambul restamped as Early 505 note: single line logo.<br />
File:Thin 14 inch bl 657g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 14" thin, serial# 171908 = 1977<br />
File:Medium 13 inch bl 587g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 13" medium, serial# 170661 = 1977<br />
File:Heavy 20 inch bl 2159g.jpg|German 505/Stambul 20" heavy, serial# 170603 = 1977<br />
File:12 hvy 505 stambul.jpg|German 505/Stambul 12" heavy, serial# 175481<br />
File:505 13 ride.jpg|13" "ride" possibly a restamped black label marching cymbal<br />
File:505 13 ride bttm.jpg|black label 13" size stamp still visible<br />
File:505 10 medium.jpg|10" medium, most likely a leftover Stambul<br />
</gallery><br />
----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], Todd Little, Dan Garza, Boris Smit<br><br />
1979 Paiste catalog<br><br />
1985 Paiste catalog<br><br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Giant_Beat&diff=80942Paiste Giant Beat2025-09-06T02:32:50Z<p>Type85: </p>
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== Giant Beat ==<br />
[[File:GB_BL_Stamp.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Giant Beat Black Label Stamp (1973)]]<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:Giant.png|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Re-Introduction:''' [[Paiste 2005 Expansion|2005]]<br><br />
<br />
'''Background:''' A resurgence in vintage sounding cymbals was the catalyst in their re-introduction in 2005.<br>We have learned from a 1st. hand account that in the early 2000's there was a custom order placed for a full set of Giant beats by a German drummer who was a Bonham fanatic, at the same time, drummer Steve Jordan was visiting the factory and saw them, he tried and liked them so much he placed a "custom order" set for himself! After several of his drummer friends heard Steve's cymbals, they placed orders as well. It is believed that this new interest in this long discontinued series is what encouraged Paiste to reissue the series!<br><br />
<br />
'''Innovation:''' First "fully professional" cymbal series to be manufactured from the popular B8 Bronze, “2002 Bronze” (Stambul65 was considered a mid line cymbal).<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
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'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
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'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
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'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
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'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
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'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br><br><br />
==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Multi]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 19" Multi|19"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 21" Multi|21"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 22" Multi|22"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 26" Multi|26"]] <br><br />
==== Thin ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Thin|20"]] <br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 16" Hi-Hat|16"]]<br><br />
*'''[[Paiste Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat **special order**]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Sound_Edge_Hi-Hat|15"]]<br />
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== Giant Beat vintage ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:GB white label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The first (white label) emboss had the star, crescent and rays with the "Trade Mark" over the top ray in smaller lettering.<br />
The "Paiste" name was below the star & crescent, with the "Made in Switzerland" under that. A similar logo was used on the Ludwig Standard cymbals around the same time, the difference being "trademark" was replaced with "Ludwig Standard"]]<br />
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[[File:Black label logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The Black label logo changes: "Paiste" name at very top in large lettering, sun rays, star and crescent under it. The "Trade" and "Mark" were aligned to the outside of the star & crescent where the "Trade" was underneath the "E" in Paiste, and "Mark" was off to the right side of the crescent. The "R. Paiste" signature was under the star & crescent and "Made in Switzerland" was underneath that. This same logo was used on the super formula 602's, and the Rogers distributed 602 Dark ride, it was known as the "plain stamp".]]<br />
[[File:GB full set.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Full set of white label Giant beats]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' [[Paiste 1967 Expansion|1967]] <br><br />
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'''Discontinued:''' [[Paiste 1974 Phase Out|1974]] <br><br />
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'''Background:''' Robert Paiste had started to experiment with B8 alloy as early as 1963, he was looking for a replacement for the then currently used NS12 (Nickel silver) alloy.<br><br />
He first produced the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul65#Stambul65 "Stambul 65"] an upper mid line series that was originally intended to replace the Stambul series (it did not). Because of B8's sound characteristics ( strong midrange, bright high end), he believed this would be the perfect alloy to make cymbals to suit the burgeoning Rock’n’Roll movement and louder amplified music in general.<br><br />
<br />
'''Innovation:''' Paiste's first professional level series to be made from B8 bronze.<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]] (Also known as <b>"2002 Bronze"</b>)<br><br />
<br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manual craftsmanship • Hand hammering, hand lathing • Proprietary manufacturing methods<br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Soft to loud settings • Live and recording • Rock, Blues, Rock’n’Roll, Swing, Country, Garage Rock, British Rock and Pop, Beat<br><br />
<br />
'''Users:''' Working musicians, enthusiasts • Drummers eager to re-capture Paiste vintage cymbal sounds from the late 60’s<br><br />
<br />
'''Sound:''' Bright and warm with a multilayered, full, dark, glassily splendid presence.<br> <br />
<br />
[https://youtu.be/amVzlvA1FS0?t=27 <b>Nick Mason playing a full set of "White label" giant beats</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/dx0cHO2Vgro?t=604 <b>Bonham, Sydney 1972 with his "Black label" Giant beats!</b>]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/VHYR1L4fcZk?t=147 <b>Full set of vintage giant beats</b>]<br><br />
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<b>The following description was posted in the Paiste 1969 catalog:</b><br />
"<i>Continuing their search for new cymbal sounds and tone colors, the Paiste Development have now turned their attention to the problems and requirements of Beat Group and Big Band drummers. As the result of extensive consultations between Paiste Technicians and top line drummers in these fields of music, Giant Beat cymbals were evolved.<br><br />
The obvious problem of the Beat or Big Band drummer is competing with the sound of the amplifiers or a large number of musicians around him - GIANT BEAT CYMBALS provide the answer!<br><br />
The production of GIANT BEAT is considerably different to the technique normally employed. Each GIANT BEAT cymbal is passed through a unique hardening process to insure it will stand up to the rigors of continuous heavy playing - this process combined with the way in which the cymbals are shaped, hammered and anodized, finally produces a set of cymbals with a sound capable of cutting through the loudest of Groups or Big Band sections.<br><br />
Although GIANT BEAT cymbals can be purchased individually, they are offered in tuned sets - Matched 15" Hi-hat, 18" Crash and 20" Ride.<br><br />
GIANT BEAT cymbals with their distinctive SOUND, SHAPE AND COLORING are fast growing in popularity - try them soon you will be impressed."</i><br><br />
<b>The first generation of Giant Beats were printed with semi white ink (white labels) at 9:00 O'clock (see picture gallery below) starting in 1967 until early 1972.<br> <br />
"White labels" are generally considered slightly heavier than their black label successors.<br><br />
The second generation of Giant beats featured Black ink (at 12:00 O'clock) and a slight change to the way they were stamped.</b><br><br />
This series was a concept of multipurpose cymbals. Initially, they consisted of three sizes of cymbals and one size of Hi-Hats (15").<br><br />
==== Multi ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Multi|Giant beat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 18" Multi|**18"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 20" Multi|20"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 24" Multi|24"]]<br><br />
(From 1972 until early 1974 "black label" versions included 14" Hi-Hats)<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Giant Beat 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Giant Beat 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
(*Originally, Paiste did not designate the type of cymbal with the exception of the hi hats (see Paiste profile 1 pictures below), in some advertising they labeled them "crash" or "ride". Ludwig listed the cymbals this way in their catalogs and not as "multipurpose".<br><br />
(**The 18" was also listed as a "heavy" in Nick Mason's profile and Bonham's endorsement deal, see pictures below)<br><br> <br />
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===Serial numbers:===<br />
Giant Beats were stamped with serial numbers beginning in early 1972 (the same as the rest of the Paiste lines) through 1974. The numbering system follows the six digit "Swiss standard": first digit of the serial is the year of manufacture i.e. #3xxxxx was made in 1973. As a rule of thumb, if your Giant beat <b>does not</b> have a serial number, it's definitely a white label (pre 1972).<br> <br />
Also, If the printing is worn off your cymbal, there's two ways to tell the age: the emboss or stamp (early or late version, see above) or if it does or does not have a serial number.<br><br />
If your Giant beat <b>does</b> have a serial number, it's either a very late run white label or a black label, it's safe to say virtually all black labels had serial numbers!<br><br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Ludwig giant beat article.jpg|Ludwig magazine 1968 description<br />
File:Paiste 68 magazine flyer BW.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste magazine giant beat ad.jpg|Paiste magazine giant beat ad 1968<br />
File:Paiste giant beat.jpg|Paiste giant beat ad from around 1969/70<br />
File:Paiste Catalog 1970.jpg|Paiste Catalog/price list 1970<br />
File:Ludwig 71 paiste 3.jpg|Ludwig/Paiste catalog 1971<br />
File:1973 Ludwig Catalog.jpg|Paiste giant beat & seven sound set - 1973 Ludwig Catalog<br />
File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 3.jpg| English distributor: Dallas Arbiter catalog (pre 2002) 1971-'72<br />
File:Bonham setup.jpg|Bonham's 1971 Giant beat setup<br />
File:Carmine setup.jpg|Carmine's 1971 Giant beat setup<br />
File:Mason setup.jpg|Nick Mason's 1971 Giant beat setup<br />
File:1974 giant beat.jpg|1974 serial number<br />
File:15 GB hats.jpg|15" white label hi-hats<br />
File:15 top hat.jpg|15" top hat white label<br />
File:18 multi black label.jpg|18" multi black label<br />
File:20 multi.jpg|20" multi white label<br />
File:Giant beat white label 24.jpg|24" multi white label<br />
File:Giant beat wht lbl.jpg| Very clean White label<br />
File:Black label.jpg|Black label logo<br />
File:White label logo (2).jpg|White label logo <br />
</gallery><br />
'''New old stock 1973 serial number black label hi hats'''<br />
<gallery><br />
File:260645543 10166037434900048 8754300734239293470 n.jpg<br />
File:260551948 10166037434800048 4579497301410171908 n.jpg<br />
File:260685766 10166037434735048 2764427348346417510 n.jpg<br />
File:260690558 10166037434975048 5059951131707932112 n.jpg<br />
File:260807739 10166037435030048 4252849813686990759 n.jpg<br />
File:261220030 10166037435080048 7399860073620558614 n.jpg<br />
File:260553069 10166037435145048 5739846701759965183 n.jpg<br />
File:261094242 10166037435245048 6517023495490859724 n.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
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=== Bonham's use of Giant beats ===<br />
He was by far the most famous drummer to use these cymbals, it's important to understand when he used them and on what albums and tours.<br><br />
In an interview with Cozy Powell (they were friends and toured the English club circuit together), he states that in the late 60's both he and Bonham started using Giant beats (both of them had issues with breaking Zildjians, they didn't with Giant beats).<br> <br />
Cozy also states that Bonham was disappointed when Paiste discontinued the line, this may be the reason for the long delay (mid 1973) before he partially switched to 2002's (he still used a Giant beat ride up until 1976).<br> <br />
In a Freddy Studer interview, he states that Bonham had come to the factory in the late 60's (before he had an endorsement deal) and bought some Giant beats and 602's.<br />
When Zeppelin went on tour in the U.S. opening for Vanilla fudge (Dec 1968 through early 1969), Carmine Appice helped him get a Ludwig endorsement, most likely he got a new set of 602's along with his new drumset (Ludwig was the U.S. distributor for 602's at that time). [https://youtu.be/k-WSbMW7BPc You can clearly see Bonham using all 602's in the March '69 Danish TV performance.]<br><br />
It is generally agreed that Bonham "mixed and matched" 602's and Giant beats until his endorsement deal (see below) in Feb. of 1970.<br><br />
Photos show that Bonham was using 15" 602 sound edges very early in 1970, he may have switched back and fourth early on between the Giant beat and 602 hi-hats, but after that it looks and sounds like the 602 sound edges were his main hi-hats until the "The song remains the same" U.S. tour in May of 1973 (he then started using all 2002's but kept the 24" Giant beat ride).<br><br />
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'''Album/tour usage'''*:<br><br />
Keep in mind throughout the '70s, Bonham would sometimes use three or even four crashes live, he may have added extra crashes in the studio as well. Below is an educated guess on what Bonham used in the studio based on what he was using live during that period of time and also the sound qualities of the cymbals on the recording.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin I: Unknown, possibly mixing 602's, Giants beats and Zildjians.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin II: Most likely a mix of 602's and Giant beats (this was before he had an endorsement deal), this album was mostly recorded while on tour in the U.S in 1969.<br><br />
Led Zeppelin III (and tour): 18", 20", 24" Giant beats, 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well) <br><br />
Led Zeppelin IV (and tour): 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges, (possibly used 15" Giant beat hi hats as well)<br><br />
Houses of the Holy: 18", 20", 24", Giant beats 15" 602 sound edges (early part of the 1973 European tour shows him using a 16" 2002 for the 1st. time on his far left for a 3rd. crash)<br><br />
The Song remains the same (May 1973 U.S. tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat <br><br />
Physical Graffiti ** (and tour): 18", 20", 15" sound edges, (all 2002's), 24" Giant beat<br> <br />
(**) important note: half the songs on Physical Graffiti were leftovers from the three previous albums, you can compare the differences in cymbals by listening to some songs back to back e.g: "night flight", (Giant beats/602's) vs. "in the light" (2002's & a Giant beat ride)<br><br />
Presence: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
In through the out door: 18", 20", 24" , 15" sound edges (all 2002's), possibly a 602 20" med. ride as well<br><br />
As you can see, on half of the Zeppelin albums he used Giant beats and continued to use his 24" on Physical Graffiti and the subsequent tour in 1975.<br><br />
It wasn't until the last two albums that he used all 2002's with a 20" 602 thrown in for good measure!<br><br />
(*) This chart is based on data from various sources (mostly from picture evidence from live shows and audio examples from studio albums), we have made our best effort to ensure it's accurate but it cannot be guaranteed 100%<br><br />
<b>Special thanks to [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bonhamology-youtube-drummer-led-zeppelin-interview-1365688/?fbclid=IwAR3bUyhgiSKk9zuokW4PF3YcX8jMAvamUVWaKeaG4CaE7Pj8vCNNmFBbXQg George Fludas for the Bonham cymbal research!]</b><br><br />
[https://youtu.be/CZ_ZDAZveR0?t=46 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE CRASHES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/TE1pEcDMQXg?t=564 BONHAM'S CYMBALS - THE RIDES - ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/tLHIETY-Qjk BONHAM'S CYMBALS / THE HI-HATS / ANALYSIS AND DEMO]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/UGIb1GPB1yk George Fludas/Terry Keating's interview on Bonham's equipment]<br />
[[File:Bonham endorsement.png|thumb|left|850px|Bonham's Paiste endorsement and list of cymbals given to him by date, note: Paiste supplied Bonham an 18" heavy Giant beat in Feb. of '73]]<br><br><br />
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----<br />
Information from:''' [[Paiste Advertising|Paiste catalogs]], George Fludas, Todd Little, Paul Collier, Dan Garza<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Identify_Your_Paistes&diff=80777Identify Your Paistes2025-09-04T04:11:43Z<p>Type85: </p>
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It is not uncommon for people to come across Paistes that are not completely identifiable. This includes vintage cymbals which the ink stamped logos and labels have been removed or faded.<br> <br />
More modern cymbals can be rendered ambiguous if cleaned improperly.<br><br />
This page includes points used to identify cymbals that do not have proper labeling that has survived [http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers (<b>more info is also available on the serial # page</b>).]<br><br />
Please note that for this conversation, the term "embossed" refers to anything pressed into the metal of the cymbal, and the word "stamped" refers to any wording applied in ink.<br> <br />
In other arenas these terms may not be used in the same way. <br />
== Alloys ==<br />
There are several alloys used in the production of Paiste cymbals.<br><br />
The easiest way to determine the alloy of an unknown cymbal is visually. However, the color may be difficult to judge in digital photographs.<br> <br />
It is recommended that when trying to identify a cymbal that it be done in person. Comparing to a cymbal of a known alloy is helpful if one is not familiar with the hues of the different alloys.<br> <br />
The formulae noted below refers to the amount of tin is mixed in with the main ingredient copper so for example, the B8 formula would be 8% tin to 92% copper.<br> <br />
== B20 "Bell bronze" Alloy ==<br />
Bell bronze, also known as bell metal, is the traditional alloy used for fine cymbals:<br />
*B20: 20% tin / 80% copper tends to have a silver/yellow or white/yellow color hue, it is more pale than either the B15 and B8 alloys.<br />
*Bell bronze is a "two-phase" alloy: meaning some of the tin is not dissolved in the copper grains but exists between them. <br />
*This makes the metal harder and more brittle than a single-phase alloy, it must be "hot rolled" (Hot rolling is a metalworking process that occurs above the recrystallization temperature of the material).<br />
*It can be difficult to work with, requiring extensive reworking, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy) tempering] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(materials_science) annealing] due to its natural brittle state, but it has been used longer than any other alloy (almost 400 years by Zildjian alone!). <br />
*B20 is still the most commonly used form of bronze.<br />
*The copper in the alloy will oxidize when exposed to excessive moisture. <br />
<br />
Series that use this alloy: [[Paiste SUPER FORMULA 602#SUPER FORMULA 602 |SUPER FORMULA 602]], [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]], [[Paiste Sound Creation#Sound Creation|Sound Creation]], [[Paiste Twenty#Twenty|Twenty]], [[Paiste Twenty#Twenty Custom Collection|Twenty Custom Collection]], and [[Paiste Twenty#Masters|Twenty Masters Collection]]. <br />
<gallery><br />
File:602 19 concert.jpg| Formula 602 <br />
File:Super 602 15 thin.jpg| Super Formula 602<br />
File:SC 18 dark rd 3.jpg| Sound creation<br />
File:Paiste-twenty-masters-collection-medium-ride-20.jpg| Twenty Masters<br />
File:MASTERS 22 crisp RIDE.jpg| Masters <br />
File:Paiste-twenty-custom-collection-full-ride-20.jpg| Twenty Custom<br />
File:602 22 ride ME.jpg| Formula 602 modern essentials<br />
</gallery><br />
== B15 "Signature" Alloy ==<br />
Paiste "Sound Alloy": 15% tin / 85% copper, is the first bronze formula ever developed specifically for making cymbal sounds:<br><br />
*In 1989 Paiste released this professional cymbal series bronze with 15% tin content. <br />
*Though the manufacturing requires the metal to be hot rolled (like B20) at certain stages, it is not [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy) tempered] like traditional B20 cymbals but is annealed: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(materials_science) <b>Annealing</b>]. <br />
*Using this alloy allows for greater consistency between blanks compared to traditional cymbal alloy, and is more inline with Paiste's B8 production methods.<br />
*B15, or Proprietary Signature Bronze (PSB) alloy, can be identified by lustrous yellow coloration. <br />
*Like all bronze, a blue/green oxide will be found when exposed to excessive moisture. This cupric oxide is what gives the Statue of Liberty its characteristic color.<br> <br />
*In early promotional materials, Paiste referred to this alloy as "PSA" - Paiste Sound Alloy.<br><br />
<br />
Series that use this alloy: [[Paiste Signature|Signature]], [[Paiste New Signature#New Signature|Signature Dark Energy]], [[Paiste Traditionals#Traditionals|Signature Traditionals]], and [[Paiste Visions|Visions(certain models)]], [[Paiste Sound Formula|Sound formula]].<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste Signature 17 Full Crash.jpg|Signature<br />
File:SIGNATURE DARK ENERGY 20 RIDE.jpg|Signature Dark Energy<br />
File:Signature 18 traditional thin crash.jpg|Signature Traditionals<br />
File:Visions.jpg|Visions<br />
File:Sound formula.jpg| Sound formula<br />
</gallery><br />
== B8 "Malleable bronze" (2002) Alloy ==<br />
Malleable bronze is an alloy of tin and copper comprising 8% tin / 92% copper:<br />
*It is a "single-phase" alloy and can be cold rolled into sheets (Cold rolling occurs with the metal below its recrystallization temperature, usually at room temperature)<br />
*Unlike B20 bell bronze, it is readily available as commercial sheet metal in many grades and thicknesses.<br />
*Top of the line malleable bronze cymbals proved exceptionally suitable for the louder music, the best of them equal the best bell bronze cymbals in quality and sound characteristics.<br />
*B8 has a noticeable orange hue to it, this is readily seen in clean cymbals, but is also present in cymbals that have developed a patina.<br />
*One noticeable exception is the RUDE line: the color of a RUDE may have a green or brown tint but the lack of lathing and the raw color from the annealing process give them away. <br />
*Moisture will cause B8 to develop a tell tale blue/green oxide. <br />
<br />
Series that use this alloy: [[Paiste 2002|2002]], [[Paiste Giant Beat|Giant Beat]], [[Paiste RUDE|RUDE]], [[Paiste Dimensions|Dimensions]], [[Paiste Innovations|Innovations]], [[Paiste Alpha|Alpha]], [[Paiste 505|505]], [[Paiste 404|404]], [[Paiste Stambul65|Stambul 65]], [[Paiste Stambul B8|Stambul B8 (after 1970)]], [[Paiste Dixie|Dixie B8 (after 1970)]], [[Paiste 3000|3000]], [[Paiste 2000|2000]], [[Paiste 1000|1000]] among many others. <br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste 2002 20 China 1.jpg| 2002<br />
File:Paiste Giant Beat 18 Multi 1.jpg| Giant Beat<br />
File:Paiste 2002 RUDE 14 Hi-Hat 1.jpg| Rude<br />
File:Dimensions.jpg| Dimensions<br />
File:35089310 1443785879100557 3953329117486645248 n.jpg| Innovations<br />
File:900R22-large.jpg| 900 series<br />
File:3000 14 crash.jpg| 3000<br />
File:2000 16 snd reflc cr.jpg| 2000<br />
File:1000 22 pwr rd.jpg| 1000<br />
File:35148114 1444145202397958 3656298387705167872 n.jpg| Alpha<br />
File:22 hvy ride 2 505.jpg| 505<br />
File:404 Brown Label 20 Ride.jpg| 404<br />
File:900 mult.jpg|900 series marching/symphonic<br />
File:Stambul 65.jpg|Stambul 65<br />
File:20-Paiste-Stambul-Medium 001.jpg|Stambul<br />
File:Dixie 18 med thin 1167.jpg| Dixie<br />
File:802 20 ride.jpg| 802<br />
File:502 16 chine.jpg| 502<br />
File:Paiste-pst-8-20-medium-ride.jpg| PST 8<br />
File:Pst7.png| Pst 7<br />
</gallery><br />
== NS12 Nickel Silver - CuNi12Zn24 (CuNi12 for short)==<br />
Composing roughly of 64% copper / 12% nickel / 24% zinc:<br />
*Paiste's go to alloy from 1947 to 1970/71 for some of the top line and all its lower line cymbals.<br />
*Nickel silver is malleable and available as commercial sheet metal, and gives a bright tone but without the shimmer and sensitivity of tin bronzes. <br />
*In the early to mid 20th century nickel alloy cymbals were far more widely produced and used, and so many older recordings were probably made using cymbals with a significant nickel content.<br />
*A very few specialised high-quality cymbals are also made from nickel silver, as are some top-quality gongs producing more modern and exotic sounds. <br />
*Cymbals made of nickel silver have a steely silver color, this color tends to be more sterile looking then B20 alloy, resembling steel in many cases. <br />
*Nickel silver is known for not corroding easily and may only have a light surface patina, rendering them more of a grey color. <br />
*If exposed to moisture, they will not develop the blue/green oxide indicative of cupric alloys.<br />
<br />
Series that use this alloy: [[Paiste Stambul|Stambul (pre '71)]], [[Paiste Dixie|Dixie (pre '71)]], [[Paiste Ludwig|Ludwig]], [[Paiste Stanople|Stanople]], and [[Paiste Super|Super]], among others.<br> <br />
<gallery><br />
File:Zilko standard 1.jpg|Zilko Standard<br />
File:Ziket 18 cr ride.jpg| Arbiter Zilket<br />
File:14 standard hi hats.jpg| Standard Hi hats<br />
File:NS12 402s.png|402 nickel silver hi-hats<br />
File:Stambul NS 12 20 ride.jpg|NS12 Stambul 20" ride<br />
File:Ludwig standard 22 ride.jpg|Ludwig Standard 22" ride<br />
File:13 ludwig standard HH.jpg|Ludwig Standard 13" hi hats<br />
File:14 stanople marching late 60s.jpg|14" Stanople marching<br />
</gallery><br />
== MS63 Brass ==<br />
Brass is a copper/zinc alloy, most commonly in a 63% copper / 37% zinc ratio:<br />
*It is very easily worked, readily available as sheet metal, and easily the cheapest metal stock normally used for cymbals.<br />
*The tone of brass cymbals tends to be warm but dull compared to any sort of tin bronze.<br />
*This alloy is almost exclusively found in beginner lines of instruments. <br />
*If your store carries entry-level kits that come with complimentary cymbals, they’re likely to be brass. <br />
*Used in some entry level Paiste cymbals. <br />
<br />
Series that use this alloy: [[Paiste Brass-Tones|Brass-Tones]], [[Paiste 101 Brass|101 Brass]], [[Paiste 200|200]], [[Paiste 302|302]]<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Pre war brass zilko.jpg| 1940's Brass Zilko<br />
File:34928562 10156393362240349 5077287054866382848 n.jpg| 200<br />
File:101 brass.png| 101 <br />
File:35383742 10156405390565349 4477234751580667904 n.jpg| Brass Tones<br />
File:34862109 10156393192900349 6059552904459583488 n.jpg| 302<br />
</gallery><br />
== Serial Numbers ==<br />
[[Paiste_Serial_Numbers|<b>Please see the special "serial number page" that examines these in detail.</b>]]<br><br />
Prototypes may or may not adhere to the serial number patterns in all respects.<br><br />
== Swiss and German factories ==<br />
[[File:German 602.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Early 602 finished at the German factory]]<br />
The German factory was the 1st, to start production around 1947/48, in 1957 Robert Paiste moved to Nottwil Switzerland by himself and setup the Swiss factory. The German factory is the sole producer of gongs, and has been since opening.<br><br />
Both factories made both levels of product except the German factory didn't make B20 cymbals or Giant beats.<br> <br />
Many 2002's were made in 70s and 80s at the German factory and the German factory also "finished" a small number of 602s during the preserial days (** see below). <br><br />
The German factory made practically all the vintage Paiste lines: 2002 (up to 1986), 2000, 1000, 400, 200, Stambul '65, Stambul, 404, 505, Ludwig cymbals, Dixies, Supers, Stanoples, Zilkos, etc.<br><br />
They still make all the lower lines and "OEM" cymbals.<br> <br />
There is a notion among some that the Swiss 2002 versions are better quality... they are not, some German versions are usually a little heavier and a little darker sounding. <br><br />
People are less familiar with German Paistes because the Swiss factory did most of the exporting, so the U.S. didn't get German 2002's or 404's or 505's.<br> <br />
The German Paistes were meant for the German market and probably certain countries in Central Europe, everyone else got Swiss cymbals.<br><br />
<br />
(**) Correspondence with Paiste Switzerland:<br><br />
<i>"By reason of a distributed capacitance, we have some Formula 602's that have been finished in Germany at the end of the 1950's.<br><br />
They were annealed and hammered in Switzerland and Paiste Germany has completed them. That’s the reason they have a stamp “made in Germany”.<br><br />
<br />
Kind regards, Customer Service Department<br><br />
Paiste Switzerland"</i><br />
<br />
We have found a return of German 602's from about 1975 to 1977, they can be identified from the archaic "E over trade" stamp (no "made in Switzerland") and a serial number starting with a "1". <br><br><br />
== Series Logos/stamps/emboss ==<br />
The other important embossed information is the series stamp. Early Paistes used this method exclusively for identification of the cymbal. The typical embossed logos can be see on the various series pages.<br> <br />
In many cases this was later replaced with ink stamped logos. Embossed logos are usually found at the 12:00 position on the cymbal (3:00 for vintage giant beats).<br><br />
Spotting details include:<br />
<br />
Very early 2002 cymbals used a logo with a border that is not seen in later examples. It is thought that this indicates cymbals from 1971. Examples have not included serial numbers indicating that they were from 1971 or early 1972.<br><br />
Early Traditional models had an embossed or stamped Paiste script logo. This was discontinued after the first or second year: cracking about the embossed logo has been sighted as a reason for this change.<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Trad-logo-crack.jpg|Signature Traditional series emboss logo w/crack<br />
File:2002 box stamp.jpg|Early 2002 stamp with border, aka: "box stamp"<br />
File:German 2002 logo.jpg|German 2002 stamp<br />
File:2002 logo 1.jpg|Swiss 2002 stamp<br />
File:602 stamp 1.jpg|602 "solid stamp" <br />
File:Super formula 602.jpg|Super Formula 602<br />
File:505 black label 1 line china logo '81 German.jpg|German 505 stamp<br />
File:404 stamp 2.jpg|404 stamp<br />
File:SC sisme dist.jpg |Sound Creation stamp<br />
File:Rude logo 2.jpg|Rude 1st. generation (early '80's) ink stamp<br />
File:Giant beat logo.jpg|Vintage Giant Beat stamp<br />
File:Stambul NS12 logo.JPG|Stambul<br />
File:Dixie swiss.jpg|Dixie<br />
File:Zilko-Paiste.jpg|Zilko <br />
File:Zilko standard.jpg|Zilko standard<br />
File:Standard logo2.jpg|Standard<br />
File:Super logo.jpg|Super<br />
File:Ludwig paiste.jpg|"3 star" Ludwig-Paiste<br />
File:Ludwig standard 2.jpg|Ludwig "standard"<br />
File:Stanople-paiste.jpeg|Ludwig-Stanople<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
== 1981 transition to Ink Stamps ==<br />
Taking cues from the new 1980 Rude models with it's large printing of the logo, size and model name; Paiste applies the same labeling format to all it's current models the following year.<br> <br />
Paiste started to use ink stamps to identify their products mid 1981. These are used to identify the series, type and size of the cymbals.<br> <br />
At the same time Paiste also changed the serial number format adding "Paiste" and the series name above the serial number: [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers#1981_-_1986 <b>detailed info here</b>].<br> <br />
As with all of Paiste's production through the years; there was a transition period, it was common for Paiste to "restamp" black label cymbals with the new printed logo, the old emboss/stamp can be clearly seen under the printing (see examples below).<br><br />
There is some confusion as to when a cymbal is made because it has a printed logo, the serial number and formatting of the serial number is the most accurate way to determine that.<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Sc transition stamp.jpg|Sound Creation with stamp and printed logo<br />
File:602 transition.jpg|602 with stamp and printed logo<br />
File:602 1975 restamped dark ride 3.jpg|1975 Dark Ride with 602 printed logo in black ink<br />
File:505 transition.jpg|505 with stamp and printed logo<br />
File:505 stambul transition.jpg|Stambul that was relabeled as a 505<br />
</gallery><br />
== Size Stamps ==<br />
During the "black label" era, size stamps appeared under the bell. During the "printed or colored label era" (starting in 1981) they were moved to the front of the cymbal and placed below the "type" identifier at the 03:00 position.<br> <br />
Like the "type" label, they are usually in a sans serif font. When using the sans serif font, the number is in a bold typeface.<br> <br />
There has been subtle variation in the font over the years, such as the inch size being in either a bold or non-bold font: [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers#.3F_-_1971_preserial_and_transition_models <b>detailed info here</b>]<br><br />
Spotting details include:<br><br />
*RUDES uses a stencil font for the type label, but the standard sans serif font for the size.<br />
*In the 1990s the size has become part of the type label for the Traditional and Signature series<br />
*Like the type label, the size label of prototype have been found in the 03:00 position and 12:00 position. <br />
<br />
== Prototypes ==<br />
Prototypes tend to be a bit non standard in their labeling. It is common practice for the 12:00 position to contain the word "Paiste" in large print. In smaller print, at 6:00 the word "Prototype" normally appears in a smaller size. Examples exist the do not include the word "Prototype".<br> <br />
<br />
Spotting details include: Prototypes do not contain any production series identifiers, except for a small sticker often found on the back of the cymbal. It is unclear whether this is an indication of what series the cymbals was designed for or if it is only used as a guide for pricing the cymbal by retailers. Prototypes often use "generic" model designations, i.e., "Crash", "Ride", "Hi-Hat", et cetera.<br><br />
<br />
Also, cymbals that were custom ordered often have, but not always, "PROTOTYPE" on them, even though they weren't prototypical. These cymbals will have the series name and model. Cymbal models & sizes no longer offered are usually the most seen custom orders. While Paiste doesn't approve of every custom order request, they will make them, but with an additional charge. (30%) Contact a Paiste dealer for more information on custom cymbals. (HINT: Search online "Paiste Custom" and find drum shops that have them in stock. They are good ones to contact, as Paiste has made custom cymbals for them in the past.) :)<br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:35548166 10156416311555349 3525729943092723712 n.jpg<br />
File:Sig 2002 crystal HH PT.jpg<br />
File:Paiste 2002 15 Extra Heavy Hi-Hat White 1.jpg<br />
File:15 xtra hvy HH.jpg<br />
File:2002 dark.jpg<br />
File:35736036 10156416312035349 2272247697714970624 n.jpg<br />
File:13JUN09 009.JPG<br />
File:Flat proto china.jpg<br />
File:22 rude power bell.JPG<br />
File:25 jun customs 094.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br><br><br />
== Artist Model Stamps ==<br />
There have been a limited number of artists model stamps ranging from simple sans serif text to graphics.<br><br />
Spotting details include:<br />
* [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Joe Morello Set|Joe Morello Set]] cymbals included his name stamped in the 03:00 position with the type identification. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste Joe Morello#Joe Morello|Joe Morello]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste RUDE 24" Mega Power Ride|RUDE 24" Mega Power Ride]] includes the "Eclipse" moniker in the 03:00 position just above the type label. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste John Dolmayan#John Dolmayan|John Dolmayan]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste Alpha#Black Alpha|Black Alpha]]s (initial release) use a unique gold tones ink and include the Slipknot logo in the 09:00 position.<br />
* [[Paiste Signature 12" Combo Crisp Hi-Hat|Signature 12" Combo Crisp Hi-Hat]] features black "The Rhythmatist" logo in the 06:00 position under the cymbal type label. Developed in cooperation with [[Stewart Copeland]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste Signature 22" Blue Bell Ride|Signature 22" Blue Bell Ride]] features white "The Rhythmatist" logo in the 06:00 position under the cymbal type label. Developed in cooperation with [[Stewart Copeland]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste Signature 22" Reflector Bell Ride|Signature 22" Reflector Bell Ride]] has "Powerslave" written in Iron Maiden font together with Eddie stencil in 06:00 position under the cymbal type label. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste Nicko McBrain|Nicko McBrain]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste 2002 24" Big Ride|2002 24" Big Ride]] features red "Reverend Al's BIG RIDE" logo above the cymbal size label. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste Alex Van Halen#Alex Van Halen|Alex Van Halen]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste 2002 18" Giga Bell Ride|2002 18" Giga Bell Ride]] features white "psychotopus" logo above the cymbal type/size label. Developed in cooperation with [[Aquiles Priester]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste Signature 22" Dry Heavy Ride "Monad"|Signature 22" Dry Heavy Ride "Monad"]] in purple ColorSound features white "Monad" logos at 6 and 9 O'clock positions. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste Danny Carey#Danny Carey|Danny Carey]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste Signature 20" Duo Ride|Signature 20" Duo Ride]] features a black "Vir2osity" logo at the 6 O'clock position. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste Carl Palmer#Carl Palmer|Carl Palmer]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste Twenty Masters Collection 24" Deep Ride|Twenty Masters Collection 24" Deep Ride]] features a black "Signature Groove" logo at the 6 O'clock position. Developed in cooperation with [[John "JR" Robinson#Paiste|John "JR" Robinson]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste 2002 24" Swish Ride|2002 24" Swish Ride]] features a red "Signature Groove" logo at the 3 O'clock position. Developed in cooperation with [[John "JR" Robinson#Paiste|John "JR" Robinson]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste RUDE 22" Power Ride "The Reign"|RUDE 22" Power Ride "The Reign"]] features a white "The Reign" logo at the 3 O'clock position above the type/size logo. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste Dave Lombardo#Dave Lombardo|Dave Lombardo]]<br><br />
* [[Paiste Twenty Masters Collection 22" Crisp Ride|Twenty Masters Collection 22" Crisp Ride]] features a black "Rosie" logo at the 6 O'clock position below the type/size logo. Developed in cooperation with [[Paiste Leon Ndugu Chancler#Leon Ndugu Chancler|Leon Ndugu Chancler]]<br><br><br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Artist Model Stamps" mode="packed">><br />
File:Black Alpha Family.jpg|Black Alpha<br />
File:18 joe morello 2.jpg|Formula 602 "Joe Morello" Script<br />
File:14 joe morello 3.jpg|Formula 602 "Joe Morello" Stamp<br />
File:RUDE 22 Power Ride The Reign 1.jpg|RUDE 22" Power Ride "The Reign"<br />
File:RUDEMEGPR-24-large.jpg|RUDE 24" Mega Power Ride<br />
File:Signature 12 Combo Crisp Hi Hat 1.jpg|Signature 12" Combo Crisp Hi-Hat<br />
File:Signature 20 Duo Ride 1.jpg|Signature 20" Duo Ride<br />
File:Paiste Signature Reflector 22 Bell Ride 1.jpg|Signature Reflector 22" Bell Ride<br />
File:Paiste Signature 22 Blue Bell Ride 1.jpg|Signature 22" Blue Bell Ride<br />
File:Paiste Signature 22 Dry Heavy Ride Monad A.jpg|Signature 22" Dry Heavy Ride "Monad"<br />
File:Paiste Twenty Masters 22 Crisp Ride 1.jpg|Twenty Masters Collection 22" Crisp Ride<br />
File:Paiste Twenty Masters 24 Deep Ride 1.jpg|Twenty Masters Collection 24" Deep Ride<br />
File:18 gigabell.jpg|2002 18" Giga Bell Ride<br />
File:Paiste 2002 24 Big Ride 1.jpg|2002 24" Big Ride<br />
File:24 2002 swish ride top.jpg|2002 24" Swish Ride<br />
</gallery><br />
<br><br><br />
== Lathing ==<br />
In the absence of embossed or stamped logos, cymbal identification can be performed by evaluating the lathing. Many series have very distinct lathing.<br> <br />
For example, RUDES are known for not being lathed at all (with the exception of the 24" Mega Power Ride, and Innovations have the "Sound Texture" lathing that looks as if the lathing tool was allowed to skip across the surface.<br><br><br />
Spotting details include:<br />
<gallery heights="200" caption="Paiste Lathing Styles" mode="packed"><br />
File:PXL 20211102 033023719.jpg|2002 and 602 side by side, lathing and color of alloy differences can be clearly seen.<br />
File:242501439 580785103074775 4576886780728784338 n.jpg|2002's have two layers of lathing: fine lathing with uneven spaced coarse lathing over it<br />
File:18 concert 602 blk lbl.jpg|602 crashes, rides etc. seem to have very consistent even spaced deep lathing<br />
File:16 chine.JPG|602 chinas, splashes, bells and flat rides have very fine lathing<br />
File:14 hvy HH.JPG|hi-hats vary depending on weight: heavies have coarse lathing<br />
File:15 se HH.JPG|Medium and sound edge hi-hats have fine lathing<br />
File:18 med 505.JPG|505's are similar to 2002's with dual lathing except the coarse lathing is simpler and evenly spaced<br />
File:18 med 404.jpg|404's have very consistent tightly packed moderate lathing, not as deep as the lathing on 602's<br />
</gallery><br />
<br><br><br />
== 1992: Revival of the black labels and Mr. Paolo Sburlati==<br />
(Paolo Sburlati worked many years for Paiste in Italy, he ended up distributing Paiste cymbals in Italy from 1984 to 1987, at that point, Toomas decided to switch to a larger distributor (Aramini) and moved Paolo over to a promoter/endorser for Paiste.)<br> <br />
Paolo Sburlati: <i>"In 1992 Ian Paice gave me an old Ludwig drum set that he had used with Deep Purple and Whitesnake. Since it was from 1975, I wanted to match it with 2oo2 cymbals from the same era, the ones with the hand stamped black ink lettering.<br> <br />
I asked Toomas Paiste if it was possible to have a set of 2oo2’s stamped with the old ink stamps. Toomas immediately liked the idea of the 70’s Ludwig/Paiste pairing, unfortunately, the old ink stamps were on a stamp holder at the home of his brother Robert who was not entirely in agreement on this "revival" plan.<br> <br />
So, one evening after Toomas visited his brother (who lived next to the factory in Nottwil), he took the stamp holder with the stamps from his house to the office!<br><br />
The next day he had the set of 2oo2’s that I had ordered for the occasion were hand stamped with the old labels. There were about forty cymbals in total made, they were to be used with other vintage Ludwig drum sets that I had in my collection."</i><br> <br />
Subsequently, to celebrate the 2oo2 line in the year “2002”, Toomas decided to once again stamp new 2002’s with the old ink stamping, these were special order versions with a cost increase of 30%.<br><br />
We understand that with these versions made in the year 2002, Paiste used the current technique and machines to label the cymbals, this is evident by the very sharp and clean edges of the ink labels compared to ragged and inconsistent labels of the original hand stamps.<br><br />
There may be others out there identifiable from the 1992 serial numbers.<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paolo sburlati.jpg|Paolo is listed in the profiles III book<br />
File:HandStamps.jpg|original hand stamps<br />
File:1992 20 2002 ride orginal stamp 0.jpg|20" ride made for Paolo Sburlati<br />
File:1992 20 2002 ride orginal stamp 3.jpg|<br />
File:1992 20 2002 ride orginal stamp.jpg|<br />
File:1992 20 2002 ride orginal stamp 1.jpg|1992 serial number<br />
File:1992 20 2002 ride orginal stamp 2.jpg|note that "swiss made" was added to the bottom of the cymbal.<br />
File:1992 20 2002 ride orginal stamp 4.jpg|<br />
File:2002 nov mod drummer.jpg| Year 2002 black label promo with "modern" black ink labels<br />
File:Refurbed 2002 1.jpg|2002 labeled with a "modern" stamp, note how clean the printing is compared to the original hand stamp<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==Factory refinishing==<br />
Details are scarce, but from a few 2007 online posts from a German drum forum, it seems Paiste offered a "refinishing service" where they would clean, recoat and then print new logos using modern methods (no rubber ink stamp!).<br><br />
Results are outstanding considering the reasonable cost associated for the service (see correspondence below), both the the German factory and Swiss factory offered this service.<br> <br />
According to correspondence; if you want new logos printed, only the Swiss factory can do it. Also, we don't know if Paiste is still offering this service.<br><br />
If you find a 70's black label cymbal based on the serial number but it looks brand new, this could be the reason why.<br><br />
<br />
<i>03/2007:<br><br />
"Thank you for your email and your interest in Paiste products.<br><br />
Please note that we are offering this service free of charge until further notice. Please send the cymbals directly to us in Switzerland.<br><br />
Thank you for your understanding and your continued support!<br><br />
Best regards, Paiste AG<br><br />
Customer Service: Switzerland"<br><br />
<br />
10/2007:<br><br />
"Thank you very much for your email. The Paiste company calculates the refinishing as follows:<br><br />
Cleaning and preservation 20, - Euro net / pc.<br><br />
Cleaning, stamping and preservation 30, - Euro net / pc.<br><br />
Shipping costs are calculated at 3.80 euros net.<br><br />
In your case, I need to know what color the 2002 logo is and whether it needs to be renewed.<br> <br />
If this is the case, we will send the cymbals to Switzerland because we do not have the appropriate logos here in Germany, then you would have to accept a longer waiting time.<br><br />
<br />
Please send the cymbals to the following address:Paiste GmbH & Co.KG, Gorch-Fock-Str. 13<br><br />
D-24790 Schacht-Audorf"</i><br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:2002 15 se top before.jpg|15" Sound Edge top before<br />
File:2002 15 se top after.jpg|15" Sound Edge top after<br />
File:2002 15 se top after 2.jpg|Closeup<br />
File:2002 15 se bottom before.jpg|15" Sound Edge bottom before<br />
File:2002 15 se bottom after.jpg|15" Sound Edge bottom after<br />
File:Refurbed 2002 1.jpg|German 2002 from about 1976 based on serial number<br />
File:Refurbed 2002 2.jpg|bottom logo shows the post 2005 "made in Switzerland"<br />
File:Paiste 2002 14 Medium Hi-Hat blk.jpg|<br />
File:Mq9cduqmioderx5v4ng5.jpg|notice the black ink instead of standard 602 blue ink (stamped over the outline emboss/stamp)<br />
File:Restamped 602 dark ride.jpg| this was common for cymbals refinished in the 90's because Paiste was no longer using blue ink for any of it's labels<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
== Early 70's 602 engraving dates ==<br />
We know from two different sources at Paiste (one was Erik Paiste) that these may represent cymbals which were returned to have some rework done on them.<br><br />
They most likely date the modification and not the actual cymbal manufacture date. Currently we have records for two dozen of these 602s:<br><br />
<br />
*1-72: 3 (one with R - 1 - 72 but in the same style)<br><br />
*2-72: 2<br><br />
*3-72: 5 (one pair of 15" SE hats with outline stamp and the older style patent list)<br><br />
*4-72: 6<br><br />
*5-72: none so far<br><br />
*6-72: 3<br><br />
*2-73: 3 (pair of 1972 serial number hats plus a preserial 20" Ride)**<br><br />
*3-73: 1 (14" SE hat bottom preserial) This preserial tells us that the time lag before a cymbal is returned for rework might be a year or two.<br><br />
*And last but not least there is one Giant Beat which has 7 or 9 - 72<br><br />
<br />
(**)The above pair of hi-hats is a rework from Paiste: The engraving is "2-73" and the serial numbers are 226602 and 226603, the hats were 12 3/4" diameter and this is what Paiste customer services had to say: “<i>this hi-hat indeed is from 1972, In former times hi-hat pairs were matched and the serial number was embossed afterwards. The engraving inside the bell “2-73” means, that something was changed or repaired on customer’s request in February 1973 by our craftsmen. The 12 ¾” size is indeed remarkable. It is possible, that the customer damaged the edge, and our craftsmen trimmed the edge at the factory in February 1973 with the result being a smaller sized hi-hat</i>.”<br><br><br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:F602-3-72-15SE-engraved.jpg|3-72 engraving date<br />
File:602SE-bot 6-72.jpg|6-72 engraving date<br />
File:602SE-bot3-73.jpg|3-73 engraving date "KPAC"<br />
File:13-2-73-hats-engr.jpg|(**)02-73 engraving date<br />
File:13-2-73-hats-bot.jpg|(**)2-73 cut down to 12 3/4"<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==Variations of the patent stamp on Sound Edge Hi-Hats, Flat rides==<br />
Through the early years of sound edge hi hats, the number of patents by country increased for zero to six:<br><br />
<br />
* "Pat. Pending" only from 1967 until at least July 1969 (after that the ink changes to show the US patent.)<br><br />
<br />
* Patent numbers from 4 countries on stamp (Swiss, Great Britain, Italy, USA) ~1970 (possibly as early as July 1969 but no sooner due to the inclusion of US patent number)<br><br />
<br />
* Patent numbers from 6 countries on stamp (adds Germany and USSR) ~1972 (It is possible it could date as far back as 4/1970 as that's when the German patent number was granted.)<br><br />
<br />
* Removal of "other countries pending" by 1976 at the latest.<br><br />
<br />
*There is the possibility that the earliest 602 SE Hats were stamped with a simple Sound Edge Top (and Bottom) in a plain font in red ink at 3:00 O'Clock (like all other 602s) before they came up with the black wavy SE Logo stamp. <br />
*We have an old advert with this alternate stamping, we were told by Ed Clift that this plain text stamping was just done for the ad and that all production SE Hats had the wavy black logo, but it wouldn't be surprising if some were sold with the plain red ink.<br><br><br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:PXL 20221123 021143208.jpg|"Pat. Pending" only, '67 to pre July '69<br />
File:602 Patent stamp 4 country.jpg|Approx 1970 preserial 602 sound edge showing Patent numbers from 4 countries & "other countries pending"<br />
File:Sisme 602 6 patents.jpg|'73 602 Sound Edge showing Patent numbers from 6 countries & "other countries pending"<br />
File:79 602 SE patent list.jpg|'79 602 Sound Edge showing Patent numbers from 6 countries and lack of "other countries pending"<br />
File:Flat ride pat pend.jpg|Early Flat Ride "pat pend" pre Dec. '70<br />
File:Flat ride other pat pend.jpg|"Other countries pending" approx. post 1971<br />
File:602-Flat-Ride patent.jpg|"Other countries pending" removed, last iteration stamp<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
== Patent lists and Pat Pending years:==<br />
<br />
The timeline on the Paiste site says 1967/68 for Flat Rides and Sound Edge hats. The details on the U.S. patent & trade mark office site says:<br><br />
*Paiste Flat Ride: United States Patent 3,546,994 Filed Jan 22, 1969 and Issue Date: December 15, 1970<br />
*Paiste Sound Edge Hats: United States Patent 3,453,923 Filed Aug 3, 1967 and Issue Date: July 8, 1969<br />
*Given Paiste themselves say "invented 1967/1968", they were likely patented in Switzerland and England earlier than in the USA.<br><br><br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Sound edge eng patent.jpg|Oct. 1967 English patent application<br />
File:Sound edge eng patent 2.jpg|English patent application<br />
File:Sound edge eng patent 3.jpg|English patent application<br />
File:Sound edge eng patent 4.jpg|English patent application<br />
File:US flat ride patent 1970.jpg|US Flat Ride patent 1970<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
== Early high "ripple count" sound edge bottoms==<br />
Another identifying factor of early preserial 602 sound edge bottoms is they had a higher "ripple count" than later versions, it seems Paiste had not decided on a standard number when Sound Edges were first introduced.<br><br />
<br />
*There are even numbers of ripples. They started out at 56 or 54 in the "Pat Pending" era (mid 1967 - mid 1969), reduced to 52 once production settled down, reduced to around 36-42 by 1972 (serial number black label era), and 32 by the blue label era and into the present day reissues (needs to be verified).<br><br />
*There are cymbals with other ripple numbers (46 x 1, 38 x 1) which might represent the handmade factor, or be intermediate forms in time. We don't have enough examples to get that precise.<br><br />
<br />
===Sound Edge ripple reductions (scallops) tabulation as at 10-Oct-21===<br />
<br />
56 14" preserial x 3<br><br />
54 15" pat pending; 15" black<br><br />
52 14" preserial x 7<br><br />
51 15" with 51 reputed (probably miscount by 1)<br><br />
50 15" preserial; 14" preserial<br><br />
46 14" preserial<br><br />
42 14" black label; 14" preserial, 1972 13"<br><br />
38 14" black label<br><br />
36 14" black label x 3<br><br />
32 14" blue label; 14" present day<br><br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Preserial 602 14 SE hats hi ripples.jpg<br />
File:Pre serial 602 SE hi rippple.jpg<br />
File:602 x SE bottom x.jpg| 46 ripples<br />
File:PXL 20221115 025429649.jpg| top and bottom<br />
File:PXL 20221115 025401582.jpg<br />
File:14-850-1050-bot.jpg<br />
File:14-935-bot.jpg<br />
File:14-do-ripple-count.jpg<br />
File:15-1038-1171-bots.jpg<br />
File:15-1090-1245-tops.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
== U.S. distributors before 1965 ==<br />
DynaStar Formula 602s were sold in the USA by Halifax Distribution from 1962 to early 1965 prior to Ludwig taking over exclusive North American distribution later in '65.<br />
Prior to Ludwig's exclusive deal with Paiste in ~1965 it looks like Bonne Music Center in Syracuse, NY was one of "the" places to get a Formula 602 in the early 1960s (printed material exists to confirm a 1962 start date of Dynastar F602).<br> <br />
The cymbals even got an alternate emboss logo with the Dynastar name. Why the Dynastar name? That remains unclear. Around this time, the store also started importing a lot of other instruments from overseas, so maybe they tied them all together under the Dynastar brand name.<br><br />
As an aside: Dynastar/Halifax also briefly sold the Paiste Dixie and budget SUPER for a short time in 1964/5 before those lines were removed from the market due to the Ludwig deal. Why didn't Halifax carry the Stambul? Because it was already being sold in the USA as the Ludwig Paiste (3-star logo).<br />
<gallery><br />
File:PXL 20230629 034316842.jpg<br />
File:Dynastar 602 logo.jpg<br />
File:Dynastar 602 logo2.jpg<br />
File:Dynastar 602.jpg<br />
File:PXL 20230730 050148353.jpg| 18" 602 Dynastar medium<br />
File:PXL 20230730 050840961.jpg| 18" 602 Dynastar medium<br />
File:PXL 20230731 031457023.jpg| Dynastar (left), E over trade (right)<br />
File:381273923 6664010480348681 770360275072042069 n.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Dynastar flyer.jpg|Bonne Music/Halifax Distributing of Syracuse, NY<br />
File:Bonne music.jpg|Bonne Music/Halifax Distributing of Syracuse, NY<br />
File:1963 (Aug) Dynastar Paiste Buddy Rich ad.JPG|August 1963 Buddy Rich Down Beat magazine advert<br />
File:Buddy rich.JPG| Color fyler of same Buddy Rich advert<br />
File:1963 (Dec) Dynastar Paiste ad William Street.JPG|December 1963 William Street Down Beat magazine advert<br />
File:1964 (Jan) Dynastar Paiste ad John Rae.JPG|Jan 1963 John Rae Down Beat magazine advert<br />
File:1964 (Mar) Dynastar Paiste ad Eddie Locke.JPG|March 1963 Eddie Locke Down Beat magazine advert<br />
File:1964 (Mar) Dynastar Paiste ad four drummers.JPG|March 1963 Down Beat magazine advert<br />
File:1964 (Sept) Dynastar Paiste ad Jake Hanna.JPG|Sept 1964 Jake Hanna Down Beat magazine advert<br />
</gallery><br />
== European, English & Japanese distributors ==<br />
Collectors may run across odd looking logos from vintage Paistes during their online searches, below is some background detail and history on what one might find:<br><br />
===England:===<br />
=== Arbiter ===<br />
"Arbiter Ltd." and "Dallas–Arbiter" were the UK importers and distributors for Paiste. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivor_Arbiter <b>Ivor Arbiter wikipedia</b>]<br><br />
Ivor Arbiter was a British-American drum designer, manufacturer, instrument salesman, and entrepreneur. In his early career, he was the owner and operator of a specialty drum shop in the West End of London.<br><br />
Later, Arbiter founded or co-founded several instrument companies, including Arbiter–Western, Dallas–Arbiter and CBS–Arbiter. "Arbiter Ltd." was sold to Dallas in 1969 the company was renamed "Dallas–Arbiter".<br><br />
There were 4 different Arbiter stamped Paiste lines starting in 1962 before they stopped and carried the standard Paiste branded lines in the late 60s: Arbiter Custom Formula 602 (602) Arbiter Custom (most likely Stambuls) Arbiter Zilko (most likely Dixies), Arbiter Zilket (most likely SUPER or an Arbiter only student line).<br> <br />
These were sold until as late as 1968. By 1969, Arbiter started carrying standard Paiste branded product lines except for the Zilkets which were sold until the early 1970s.<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:PXL 20230115 075353178.jpg|Arbiter Custom Formula 602 logo. This cymbal is probably from the mid 1960s. Charlie Watts used a 16" Arbiter Custom Formula 602 for many years before it cracked.<br />
File:Arbiter custom.jpg|Arbiter Custom pricing and available sizes indicate the "Custom" might been a Stambul with a different emboss.<br />
File:Arbiter zilco.jpg|Arbiter Zilko<br />
File:Arbiter zilket.jpg|Arbiter Zilket<br />
File:PXL 20230115 015037812.jpg|Arbiter "Custom" Formula 602<br />
File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 5.jpg|'71/'72 Dallas-Arbiter catalog<br />
File:Paiste arbiter 68 1.jpg|1968 Arbiter Ltd. catalog<br />
File:Paiste arbiter 68 price list.jpg|1968 Arbiter Ltd. price list for 602's<br />
File:1964 arbiter ad.jpg|1964 Arbiter advert<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Arbiter 1.jpg|1971/72 Arbiter catalog<br />
File:Arbiter 2.jpg<br />
File:Arbiter 3.jpg<br />
File:Arbiter 4.jpg<br />
File:Arbiter 5.jpg<br />
File:Arbiter 6.jpg<br />
File:Arbiter 7.jpg<br />
File:Arbiter 8.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
===Hayman standard cymbals===<br />
Hayman was a UK-based drum brand that was produced from 1968 - 1975.<br><br />
Hayman drums and cymbals were the brainchild of Ivor Arbiter: "<i>The Hayman Standard is a cymbal with the Hayman name made by the Paiste Cymbal Company in Switzerland. These fine cymbals will more than meet the requirements of the drummer who is not yet ready to purchase a top of the line cymbal</i>". (from early-mid 70s Dallas-Arbiter catalog). These B8 Paiste-made cymbals are a bit on the rare side. <br> <br />
Our guess is that Paiste made these cymbals for just a few years, most likely from 1972 to 1975 as Dallas-Arbiter carried standard Paiste product lines up until at least 1971/72. The Dallas-Arbiter catalog is unclear on how these cymbals were typed, listing them as hi hats and medium rides, which doesn't make much sense given the available sizes. One cymbal we found, from what's left of the ink that it was designated as a Medium Thin, that suggests these cymbals were relabeled Dixies with a Hayman emboss. <br />
Also the lathing style also matches the Dixies from that era. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayman_drum Wikipedia: Hayman drums]<br> <br />
There is alo the "Phase" and "Phase 1" series which could've been relabeled supers or Dixies, no weight designation that we have seen so far.<br />
<br />
'''Available sizes:'''<br><br />
Hi Hats: 14", 15"<br><br />
Cymbals were available in: 16", 18", 20", 22"<br><br />
It's quite possible they were available in these two weights:<br><br />
Medium Thin: 16", 18", 20", 22"<br><br />
Crash Ride: 16", 18", 20", 22"<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Hayman stamp.jpg|Hayman standard<br />
File:Hayman Phase logo.jpg| Hayman Phase<br />
File:Hayman phase 1.jpg| Hayman Phase 1<br />
File:Hayman arbiter catalog.jpg|Hayman Arbiter catalog<br />
File:Hayman Standard.JPG|Dallas Arbiter catalog from Dec 1972<br />
File:20 hayman 1.jpg|20"<br />
File:22 hayman.jpg|22"<br />
File:14 hayman.jpg|14" hi-hat<br />
File:Hayman hats.jpg|Pair 14" hi-hat<br />
File:Phase 1 ride.jpg|Phase 1 ride<br />
</gallery><br />
===Germany:===<br />
===Sonor drum co.=== <br />
Sonor sold Paiste Stambuls in their catalogs with a special Sonor logo stamped below the regular Stambul stamp. Paistes are listed in the Sonor catalogs from 1952 to about 1958. We cannot find any evidence that Sonor had a relationship with Paiste prewar, but investigations are ongoing!<br />
<gallery><br />
File:52 sonor catalog.jpg|1952 catalog<br />
File:52 sonor catalog marching china.jpg|1952 catalog<br />
File:53 sonor catalog.jpg|1953 catalog<br />
File:57 58 sonor catalog gongs.jpg|1957/8 catalog<br />
File:57 58 sonor catalog pricelist.jpg|1957/8 catalog<br />
File:57 58 sonor catalog.jpg|1957/8 catalog<br />
File:Early 50s sonor wide stamp.jpg|early 50's stamp with old Sonor "delta" logo<br />
File:Early 50s wide stamp.jpg|early 50's stamp with old Sonor "delta" logo<br />
File:Stambul HH NS12 15 inch with Sonor Logo t1169g b1224g 2.jpg|Sonor "script" logo<br />
File:Stambul HH NS12 15 inch with Sonor Logo t1169g b1224g.jpg|Sonor "script" logo<br />
File:S-l1600 (1).jpg|Sonor "script" logo<br />
</gallery><br />
===Trixon drums===<br />
Trixon was another German drum company like Sonor, the cymbals listed are Stambuls with an alternate logo stamp.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste trixon.jpg<br />
File:Stambul Trixon 50's emboss.jpg<br />
File:Trixton.jpg <br />
File:Trixon stambul.JPG<br />
</gallery><br />
===Tromsa drums===<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Tromsa 1959 Stambul cymbals.JPG<br />
File:Tromsa 1959 Stambul hats.JPG<br />
File:Tromsa circa 1960 Stambul.JPG<br />
</gallery><br />
===Deri drums===<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Deri drums price list.jpg<br />
File:Deri Stambuls.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
===Luxor===<br />
Luxor drums may have been made in Japan and perhaps sold in Germany...<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1960s Luxor catalog.JPG<br />
</gallery><br />
===France: Asaba===<br />
<gallery><br />
File:11.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
=== Italy: SISME ===<br />
SISME were the Italian importers and distributors for Paiste from the early 1970's (there are preserial and "transition" cymbals from approx 1970/71 that have the SISME stamp on them) until about 1984 when "Paiste Italia" took over.<br><br />
Paiste had been distributed in Italy in the ‘60s and early ‘70s by Hans Bauer as "Casale-Bauer distributing".<br> <br />
SISME started distributing probably around 1970, while Casale-Bauer was still distributing at the same time, in order for SISME to distinguish their cymbals from Casale-Bauer, Paiste added "Hi performance" (a favorite phrase of Roberts), in addition, Aldo, the owner of SISME also asked Toomas to add the red "Sisme distribution" ink stamp on the bottom of the cymbals. SISME's distribution ended in 1984 when Paolo Sburlati and "Paiste Italia" replaced them.<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:SC sisme dist.jpg|Sound creation logo with SISME "high performance"<br />
File:Sisme preserial.jpg <br />
File:602 22 thin.jpg| Preserial 602 thin with "high performance" stamp<br />
File:Sisme 602.jpg|602 "high performance" stamp<br />
File:Dixie sisme.jpg|Dixie "high performance" stamp<br />
File:Sisme 602 a.jpg|602 sound edge with "SISME distribution" stamped in red<br />
File:352857894 1192480698110532 925554959473973155 n.jpg|2002 "high performance" emboss<br />
File:352693214 1436566650446372 6772346614988823868 n.jpg|SISME 2002 <br />
File:352494821 256848153690577 2162341193883767064 n.jpg|SISME 2002 bottom<br />
File:351698210 224688143672667 2658024535120384503 n.jpg|2002 "SISME distribution" stamped in red<br />
</gallery><br />
===Japan: Pearl ===<br />
There was a time when Pearl distributed Paiste in Japan. From research that time period seems to run from 1969 to 1979.<br> <br />
Below is a page from a 1979 Pearl JDM catalog showing the selection of Sound Creation, Formula 602, 2002, and 404's.<br> <br />
Of note here is the selection of 404s: it contains actual 404s and restamped Dixies as indicated by some of the sizes (12") and the Medium Thin and Crash Ride options.<br><br />
The Dixie cymbals have a different emboss that includes the Pearl logo (see below).<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Dixie pearl logo.jpg|Dixie with Pearl logo included in stamp<br />
File:Pearl 1974.jpg|Paiste selection in 1974 Pearl JDM catalog. Shows Pearl was selling Giant Beats as well as 602s and Dixies<br />
File:Pearl 1975 a.jpg|1975 JDM catalog<br />
File:Pearl 1975 b.jpg|1975 JDM catalog - 2002s in - Giant Beats out.<br />
File:1976 pearl catalog.jpg|1976 JDM catalog<br />
File:Pearl 1979.jpg|1979 JDM catalog<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
===Oddball distributors===<br />
<gallery><br />
File:602 hi fi bronce.jpg|602 "hifi bronce", bronce is Spanish for bronze, possibly a Spanish distributor?<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
<big>''' [[Paiste Rarities, Oddballs, and Unique Items]]''': A photo gallery.</big><br />
<br />
--------------------<br />
Sources: Paiste.com, Cymbal alloys - wikipedia, Todd Little, Steve Black, Dan Garza, Nils Lillig.<br> <br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste|Paiste Main Page]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602&diff=80776Paiste Formula 6022025-09-04T03:54:36Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Formula 602 ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:602 logo Blue mod.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 logo]]<br />
[[File:Fo 602.png|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:1985 602 catalog.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1962/63ish (based on advertising and catalogs)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1994 (based on serial numbers) then reissued 2011 to present<br><br />
'''Background:''' <br />
One of the world’s most revered and legendary cymbal lines in history, renown and loved for its fine, delicate musical tone.<br><br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957, this (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602" the predecessor to the Formula 602. It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, then we think the "Super Formula" series ran to about 1962. Evidence shows that the Formula 602 series became available in 1962 and was produced until Paiste's B20 supplier Swissmetal ran into financial difficulties and stopped production of blanks in 1994.<br><br />
'''Innovation:''' Second B20 cymbal made by Paiste, the Formula 602 line also saw the introduction of the [[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]], the [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]], [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] with a Turkish bell, [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] and [[Paiste Bell|Bell]]. <br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B20_Alloy|B20 Bronze]], also known as "Bell Bronze".<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manually machine hammered, fine tuned with hand hammering and hand lathed B20 bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Most volume settings • Low to medium loud settings • especially well-suited for recording, live • Jazz, Fusion, Blues, Pop and Rock, Country, Folk, acoustic music.<br><br />
'''Users:''' Professional musicians, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound<br><br />
<b>Late 1960's early 1970's formula 602 users:</b> [https://youtu.be/axEK3x5KIYc?t=30 '''Clive Bunker playing a shiny new set of 602's in 1970 @ the isle of Wight festival.''']<br />
[[File:602 players.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 Players]]<br />
'''Sound:''' <br />
* Musical, transparent, beautiful, rich, colorful, full, clear, expressive sound • The model range features everything from particularly delicate, well balanced and sensitive to expressive, potent and powerful and projective qualities<br />
* Warm, silvery, mellow, cool, light, fine, precise and controlled • Cymbals with clarity and retro vintage character combined with a velvety, sensitive, very responsive feel. (4)<br><br />
* Formula 602 sounds are very precise, very clear and very pure. They are suited to acoustic music, jazz, classical performances and recording. Only a delicate touch is required to produce their distinctive, cool and natural response. (1)<br />
* Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, Formula 602 Classic Sounds cymbals produce a true, pure sound of unique clarity and consistency.<br><br />
=== Formula 602 Models in Production ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Thin|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Paperthin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Paperthin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Paperthin|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Bell|13"]]<br><br />
=== <b>Discontinued Models & Sizes</b> ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Dark Ride|Dark Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Heavy|Flatride Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Heavy|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Medium|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Flatride Thin|24"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Heavy|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Heavy|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Heavy|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Heavy|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Heavy|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Heavy|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Heavy|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Ride|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Ride|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium Ride|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium Ride|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium Ride|21"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Medium|Space Sound Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Thin|Space Sound Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Thin|20"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Medium|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Medium|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Medium|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Medium|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Medium|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Paperthin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Paperthin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Paperthin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Paperthin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Paperthin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Paperthin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Paperthin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Paperthin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Paperthin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Paperthin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Paperthin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Paperthin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Paperthin|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Thin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Thin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Thin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin|26"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 28" Thin|28"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin Crash|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin Crash|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin Crash|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin Crash|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin Crash|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin Crash|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin Crash|26"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Hi-Hat|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Hi-Hat|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" China Type|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" China Type|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" China Type|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" China Type|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" China Type|24"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 9" Heavy Bell|9"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy Bell|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Splash|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Splash|11"]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Cup Chime|Cup Chime]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Cup Chime|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Cup Chime|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Cup Chime|11"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Concert|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Concert|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium Weight''' - 17" 18" 19" 20" 21"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Heavy''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Thin''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Heavy|Concert Heavy]] - 17" 18" 19" [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Crotale|Crotale]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 1 Octave Set|1 Octave Set]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 2 Octave Set|2 Octave Set]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 2½ Octave Set|2½ Octave Set]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Sound Edge|Concert Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Sound Edge|20"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Marching|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Marching|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Marching|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Marching|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Marching|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching Sound Edge|Marching Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Marching Sound Edge|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Marching Sound Edge|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Marching Sound Edge|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Marching Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Marching Sound Edge|20"]]<br><br><br />
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<br />
== Formula 602 Modern Essentials ==<br />
[[File:FORMULA602 ME Group.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Fredy 2016 drumhead mag 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Interview with Fredy Studer describing the development of the M.E. 602 and Vinnie Colaiuta's involvement.]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 2013<br><br />
'''Background:''' Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), offering a complete new wide and dynamic sound dimension, developed in close collaboration with Vinnie Colaiuta, handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, conceived and executed according to Vinnie’s uncompromising sound concepts for a wide all-round application. Formula 602 Modern Essentials cymbals combine the essence of the Formula 602 Classic Sounds models – transparency and stick definition – with the richness, warmth, darkness and a bit of complexity of the Signature Traditionals series besides providing slightly more pizzazz than its Classic Sounds siblings.<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Low to medium loud settings •especially well-suited for recording, live • extremely versatile cymbals for a wide range of music styles such as Pop, Rock, Jazz, Fusion, Blues, R&B, Country, Folk, acoustic music <br><br />
'''Sound:'''Deep, full, rich, warm, lively, silvery, dynamic, controlled and precise • Cymbals that combine clarity, consistency with deepness and warmth, yet providing a modern versatile sound character with dynamic, potent, well balanced qualities and a responsive, soft feel<br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 21" Ride|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 24" Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 17" Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 19" Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China|China]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" China|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" China|22"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 10" Splash|10"]]<br><br><br />
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<br />
== Seven Sound Set ==<br />
[[File:Paiste seven sound set advert.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1968 brochure]]<br />
[[File:7 sound set.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Complete 7 sound set]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1977<br><br />
'''Background:''' The following description of the Seven Sound Set was printed in Paiste's 1969 catalog:<br><br />
"A set of seven cymbals each in a new unusual sound-color. Sound colors the demanding drummer is looking for to enrich his personal cymbal set. Particularly, the SEVEN SOUND SET enables the studio drummer to fulfill the many and often unusual sound demands involved in modern recording and studio work."<br><br />
<br />
'''Flat ride Background:''' From a 2006 Robert Paiste interview: "The Flat Ride is the first and the last cymbal that more or less came out of a gag. That was with Joe Morello, he visited here once and at that time there were these new super thin Swiss watches, he was fascinated with his new super thin watch that he had just got. He said, "why don't you make a cymbal like that?" I wondered, what does a cymbal without a bell sound like? Well, we were making gongs, but I didn't relate to that, we built prototypes, which surprised us very much with the sound."<br> <br />
The very early versions or possibly prototypes were labeled "Space Sound" in medium (confirmed) and possibly thin weight. It also believed that less than a dozen of these were made before the name changed to "flat ride"<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's <br><br />
* '''1 [[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 1|Seven Sound Set 1 - 8"]]<br><br />
* '''2 [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 2|Seven Sound Set 2 - 11"]]<br><br />
* '''3 [[Paiste Bright Ride|Bright Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 3|Seven Sound Set 3 - 17"]]<br><br />
* '''4 [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 4|Seven Sound Set 4 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''5 [[Paiste Ride/Crash|Ride/Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 5|Seven Sound Set 5 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''6 [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 6|Seven Sound Set 6 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''7 [[Paiste Deep Ride|Deep Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 7|Seven Sound Set 7 - 20"]]<br><br><br />
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<br />
== Formula 602 Joe Morello Set ==<br />
[[File:Joe morello.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1975 Paiste profiles]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967ish - 1977 (based on serial numbers)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1976<br><br />
'''Background:''' "Late '65, early '66 after Ludwig took over the distribution of Formula 602's for North America, Joe Morello was approached by Bill Ludwig to endorse Paiste. Since Joe played and endorsed Ludwig Drums, he was the obvious choice for a signature cymbal set baring his name. Paiste catalog: "In personal collaboration with Joe Morello, this beautiful melodically coordinated set was created" A custom set of Formula 602 cymbals made to Joe's specification (the 1st. artist model!) comprising of 14" sound edge hi hats, 17", 18" and 20" sizes. Visual cues show much finer lathing and possibly different hammering compared to the standard 602's<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's possibly a little darker?<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 20"|20"]]<br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 17"|17"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash/Ride|Crash/Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 18"|18"]]<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 14"|14"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Production Eras ==<br />
=== Super Formula 602 (1957/59 - 1963 according to advertising data)===<br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957 when he first opened the Swiss factory (at that point it was a one room shop!).<br><br />
It should be noted that Robert founded the Swiss factory across lake Sempach from where their future B20 alloy supplier "Metallwerke Dornach/Swissmetal" was located (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point, little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!). He initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production, Swissmetal previously had not rolled it to such a thin specification but did have the equipment to do it reliably, Robert literally had to teach the foundry technicians how to roll the blanks to his thin specification without cracking!<br><br />
It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, this means that most likely the "Super formula" didn't reach widespread distribution until about 1959. This (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602".<br><br />
<br />
*One of the stamps of this series (there are two distinct styles) still looks very similar to the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul STAMBUL series] stamp. The Super formula series with the Stambul style logo seems to come in two versions: one with Formula 602 label and one without (see below).<br> <br />
<br />
*There are also two versions of the second style which looks like the early formula 602 stamp: one has the word "Super" written to the upper right ("plain stamp- Super"), the second variation does not have the word "Super" (we call this the "plain stamp"), both leave off the words "formula 602" these variations are thought to represent the evolution of the trademark for the super formula 602 series just as it was coming out.<br><br />
<br />
*It is speculated that the "Super formula" term comes from the process that Swissmetal used to heat, mix, pour and hot roll the B20 alloy.<br><br />
Note: There is an entirely separate series called [http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Super] which is not made from B20 alloy and came later. This has caused a lot of confusion over the years.<br> '''Sound sample:''' [https://youtu.be/Gb_Gl0xqbJs<b>Super Formula 24" ride</b>]<br><br />
<gallery caption="Super Formula 602" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 1.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 2.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 1959 63 catalog back cover.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste Super Stambul Standard ad (Melos 1962).jpg|The super formula 602 is still listed in "Melos" magazine in 1962<br />
File:Super 602 blank logo 1.jpg| "plain stamp"<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-logo.jpg||"plain stamp-Super"<br />
File:Paiste-22-2794-stamp.jpg|"Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Early 602 super stambul type logo.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery caption="Examples" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:602 14 super thinsm.jpg|14" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 15 thin.jpg|15" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-top.jpg|15" "plain stamp"<br />
File:PXL 20221112 030503044.jpg|15" "plain stamp" hi hats<br />
File:Paiste-602-super-top.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:16 super formula 2.jpg|16" "Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:18 super formula stambul stmp.jpg|18" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-pre602-top.jpg|22" "plain stamp" 602 Cymbal 22"<br />
File:Cleaned super formulas.jpg| Stambul stamp and plain stamp comparison<br />
File:Super x plain stamp location.jpg|Plain stamp location comparison<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Preserial Era (~1962/63 - 1971/72)===<br />
This is the first true era of the Formula 602 series. <br />
==== Early "E over trade" stamp (~1962 to about 1965)====<br />
This early era is identified by several cymbals with these stamps that we have observed and or own, the "E over trade stamp" is the first stamp Paiste used on the early formula 602 series. It is relatively easy to spot the difference between this early stamp the perserial "Solid stamp" and 1970's "Outline stamp" formats.<br />
The discovery of the early 60's logos illustrated in the catalogs below helped confirm the difference.<br><br />
The E over trade stamp has two subtle variations (see pictures below), one version has a wide gap between "Formula 602" and "made in Switzerland" and the other has a much smaller gap. Also, the size of the text in general is smaller and or a different font on the "wide gap stamp" (see side by side comparison below).<br><br />
The 602 "Aribiter custom" was also produced during this period and possibly extended into the "solid stamp" era. <br />
<gallery caption="E over Trade" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:63 catalog 20.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste 1963 catalog a.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste-early-602-stamp3.jpg| "E over trade" small gap stamp<br />
File:PXL 20221029 234009393.jpg| "E over trade" large gap stamp<br />
File:Large gap small gap.jpg| large gap/small gap comparison<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:602 18 e over trade 2.jpg|18 medium<br />
File:PXL 20221029 233944523.jpg|22" medium ride<br />
File:Arbiter 602.jpg|Arbiter "Custom" stamp<br />
</gallery ><br />
==== Solid Stamp (~1965 - early/mid 1972)====<br />
In simplest terms, the name "solid stamp" comes from the solid block letters that comprise the words "Paiste and "Formula 602", this stamp was used roughly from 1965 to 1972.<br><br />
The earliest example we have seen of the Solid Stamp is from a 1965 catalog shown below. We believe the change of stamp coincided with Ludwig taking over North American distribution in late 1964/early 1965.<br> <br />
There are some exceptions where a cymbal was made during the preserial era and stamped with a "solid stamp" and ink, then the cymbal sat in the vault for a few years, the cymbal was then stamped with a serial number when it was shipped to the distributor (see example below).<br><br />
<gallery caption="Solid Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 1965ish catalog 1.jpg| ~1965 catalog<br />
File:Paiste 63 catalog 2.jpg|1965 catalog showing "modern" stamp format<br />
File:Paiste-602-solid.jpg|annotated solid stamp<br />
File:Paiste-18-1510-stamp.jpg|solid stamp<br />
File:Solid stamp b.jpg|<br />
File:PXL 20230528 003028603.jpg|<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:PXL 20221228 020839223.jpg|solid stamp with 1974 serial number<br />
File:602 transition ink.jpg|close up of solid stamp<br />
File:23 Heavy 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Black Label Era (1972 -1981)===<br />
There are two different embossed stamps which are found in this era: solid stamp early on and then the outline stamp for the rest of the era. then there are two oddities: an archaic "E over trade" stamp for German 602's and the super formula stamp "plain stamp" for Rogers distributed dark rides).<br> <br />
This era represents cymbals produced from about mid 1972 to mid 1981 before colored labels were silkscreened on the top and bottom. Almost all Black Label era cymbals have serial numbers but there are a few examples of cymbals from the early 1970s which have Black Label style ink but no serial number. <br />
<br />
==== Outline Stamp (1972-1981)====<br />
The Outline Stamp is used from just before serial numbers appear until the Blue Label era (1981). If you see a Formula 602 cymbal with an Outline Stamp it is something like 99% likely to have a serial number. <br />
<gallery caption="Outline Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-outline-stamp.jpg|Annotated Outline Stamp<br />
File:Outline stamp b.jpeg|1980<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055608775.jpg|1976<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055717280.jpg|1975<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055759138.jpg|1980<br />
File:Solid vs outline stmp.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
File:PXL 20230529 021307993.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
</gallery><br />
==== Rogers U.S. 602 Dark Ride '76-'77 and European 602 version 1975-1978====<br />
The super formula 602 "plain stamp" appears on Rogers U.S. distributed Dark Rides from 1976-1977 this stamp does not have the "Formula 602" on the bottom of the stamp. So far every Rogers U.S dark ride cymbal we have seen has a serial number.<br><br />
We have also observed sor far from dozens of examples that all European distributed dark rides were stamped with the standard "outline stamp" from the black label era ('72 -'81), in addition, with a few exceptions all have the "Formula 602" ink printed above the bell.<br><br />
We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing![https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Formula_602_22%22_Dark_Ride <b>More on the Dark ride page!</b>]<br />
<gallery caption="602 Dark ride" heights="100" mode="packed">><br />
File:Super formula plain stamp.jpg|The super formula 602 "plain stamp" is identical to the stamp used on the Rogers 602 dark rides!<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-stamp.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Dark-stamp.jpg|European Dark Ride: "outline stamp"<br />
File:Trans 602 22 dark ride stamps.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:602 22 dark ride.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-top.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:22 dark 4.jpg|European dark ride with outline stamp<br />
File:22 dark 2.jpg|European dark ride outline stamp<br />
File:349227047 214684508023232 989629301524005366 n.jpg|selection of European dark rides stamped with the standard "outline stamp", bottom right 2 cymbals are early Sound creations<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==== German 602's (early 1960's and mid 1970's?) ====<br />
We know the German factory "finished" 602's in the early/mid 60's when production was ramping up:<br />
<br />
(**) Correspondence with Paiste Switzerland:<br><br />
<i>"By reason of a distributed capacitance, we have some Formula 602's that have been finished in Germany at the end of the 1950's.<br><br />
They were annealed and hammered in Switzerland and Paiste Germany has completed them. That’s the reason they have a stamp “made in Germany”.<br><br />
<br />
Kind regards, Customer Service Department<br><br />
Paiste Switzerland"</i><br><br><br />
<br />
In the 1970's, the German 602's were meant for the German market and probably certain countries in Central Europe and eastern Europe, everyone else got Swiss produced 602's.<br />
We have found a return of German 602's from about 1975 to 1977, they can be identified from the archaic "E over trade" stamp (no "made in Switzerland") and a serial number starting with a "1".<br />
<gallery caption="Made in West Germany" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:German 602.jpg| 1960's German 602<br />
File:16 german 602.jpg|E over trade stamp W/O "made in Switzerland"<br />
File:German 602 flat3.jpg|German made 7 sound set<br />
File:German 602 flat2.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:German 602 flat1.jpg|German flat rides had "made under license" under the patent numbers<br />
File:German 602 stamp.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-serial.jpg|1975 serial<br />
File:14-990-1000-top.jpg|<br />
File:18-1510-side.jpg|Joe Morello 602 made in Germany!<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Blue Label Era ===<br />
During the Blue Label era (1981-1993) an embossed stamp was no longer applied. Instead Paiste used blue ink.<br />
<gallery caption="Blue Label" heights="150" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-ink.jpeg|Blue ink 602 Logo<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-inkb.jpeg|Blue ink pAisTe on bottom<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-model.jpeg|Blue model ink<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-top.jpg|Top view<br />
</gallery><br />
[[File:Plasko thin crashes.jpg|1700px|]]<br />
<br><br />
<br />
<br />
We estimate the year of change from PreSerial to Black to Blue based on the serial numbers we find:<br><br />
Black label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br><br />
<br><br />
1971: none so far<br><br />
1972: 29<br><br />
1973: 40<br><br />
1974: 41<br><br />
1975: 27<br><br />
1976: 26<br><br />
1977: 32<br><br />
1978: 37<br><br />
1979: 28<br><br />
1980: 18<br><br />
1981: 18<br><br />
1982: 1 (serial number PAISTE 602 / 238079)<br><br />
1983: none so far<br><br />
<br><br />
Blue label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br> <br />
<br><br />
1980: none so far<br><br />
1981: 32<br><br />
1982: 23<br><br />
1983: 17<br><br />
1984: 19<br><br />
1985: 15<br><br />
1986: 13<br><br />
1987: 12<br><br />
1988: 21<br><br />
1989: 8<br><br />
1990: 9<br><br />
1991: 2<br><br />
1992: 4<br><br />
1993: none so far<br><br />
<br />
Note the importance of the prefix. Without the PAISTE 602 prefix that one 1982 Black Label cymbal would have been 1972. If that serial number had prefix pAisTe it would be 1992. Prefix matters, although there are sometimes other ways to correctly assign the decade based on ink and for specific models. If the serial number has a prefix above it -- pay attention. That's what makes the decade (thus the whole serial number) unique. We think the myth of serial numbers starting in 1970 arose because people were not paying proper attention to the prefix. The other contributing factor is not treating the German made serial numbering separately. <br />
<br />
=== Laser Stamp Era ===<br />
When the Formula 602 cymbals were reissued in 2011 they first came out with 8 digit serial numbers as seen on the last of the Blue Label cymbals. Very soon after this Paiste switched to a laser stamp which is on the bottom rather than the top. The Laser Stamp Era is also referred to as the Reissue Era, although once again there are a very few Reissued Formula 602s which don't have a laser stamp. <br />
<gallery caption="Laser Stamp" heights="200" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-2011-serial.jpg|2011 embossed serial<br />
File:Paiste-602-laser-stamp.jpg|Laser stamp from 2015<br />
</gallery><br />
<br><br><br />
--------<br />
Information/research from: Steve Black, Todd Little, Dan Garza, the majority of the individual cymbal model/size pictures courtesy of "Splash Baker" and her blue label collection.<br><br />
#Modern Drummer Equipment Annual 1988-89<br><br />
#PAISTE/Ludwig Seven Sound Set Leaflet<br><br />
#Paiste "Six Cymbal Lines" Ad 1981<br><br />
#2019 PAISTE.com<br><br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste|Paiste Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602&diff=80775Paiste Formula 6022025-09-04T03:48:21Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Formula 602 ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:602 logo Blue mod.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 logo]]<br />
[[File:Fo 602.png|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:1985 602 catalog.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1962/63ish (based on advertising and catalogs)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1994 (based on serial numbers) then reissued 2011 to present<br><br />
'''Background:''' <br />
One of the world’s most revered and legendary cymbal lines in history, renown and loved for its fine, delicate musical tone.<br><br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957, this (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602" the predecessor to the Formula 602. It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, then we think the "Super Formula" series ran to about 1962. Evidence shows that the Formula 602 series became available in 1962 and was produced until Paiste's B20 supplier Swissmetal ran into financial difficulties and stopped production of blanks in 1994.<br><br />
'''Innovation:''' Second B20 cymbal made by Paiste, the Formula 602 line also saw the introduction of the [[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]], the [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]], [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] with a Turkish bell, [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] and [[Paiste Bell|Bell]]. <br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B20_Alloy|B20 Bronze]], also known as "Bell Bronze".<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manually machine hammered, fine tuned with hand hammering and hand lathed B20 bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Most volume settings • Low to medium loud settings • especially well-suited for recording, live • Jazz, Fusion, Blues, Pop and Rock, Country, Folk, acoustic music.<br><br />
'''Users:''' Professional musicians, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound<br><br />
<b>Late 1960's early 1970's formula 602 users:</b> [https://youtu.be/axEK3x5KIYc?t=30 '''Clive Bunker playing a shiny new set of 602's in 1970 @ the isle of Wight festival.''']<br />
[[File:602 players.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 Players]]<br />
'''Sound:''' <br />
* Musical, transparent, beautiful, rich, colorful, full, clear, expressive sound • The model range features everything from particularly delicate, well balanced and sensitive to expressive, potent and powerful and projective qualities<br />
* Warm, silvery, mellow, cool, light, fine, precise and controlled • Cymbals with clarity and retro vintage character combined with a velvety, sensitive, very responsive feel. (4)<br><br />
* Formula 602 sounds are very precise, very clear and very pure. They are suited to acoustic music, jazz, classical performances and recording. Only a delicate touch is required to produce their distinctive, cool and natural response. (1)<br />
* Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, Formula 602 Classic Sounds cymbals produce a true, pure sound of unique clarity and consistency.<br><br />
=== Formula 602 Models in Production ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Thin|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Paperthin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Paperthin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Paperthin|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Bell|13"]]<br><br />
=== <b>Discontinued Models & Sizes</b> ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Dark Ride|Dark Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Heavy|Flatride Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Heavy|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Medium|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Flatride Thin|24"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Heavy|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Heavy|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Heavy|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Heavy|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Heavy|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Heavy|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Heavy|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Ride|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Ride|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium Ride|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium Ride|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium Ride|21"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Medium|Space Sound Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Thin|Space Sound Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Thin|20"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Medium|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Medium|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Medium|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Medium|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Medium|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Paperthin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Paperthin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Paperthin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Paperthin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Paperthin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Paperthin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Paperthin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Paperthin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Paperthin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Paperthin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Paperthin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Paperthin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Paperthin|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Thin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Thin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Thin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin|26"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 28" Thin|28"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin Crash|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin Crash|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin Crash|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin Crash|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin Crash|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin Crash|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin Crash|26"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Hi-Hat|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Hi-Hat|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" China Type|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" China Type|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" China Type|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" China Type|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" China Type|24"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
[[File:Bells.JPG|thumb|right|450px|Bells &.Heavy Bells]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 9" Heavy Bell|9"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy Bell|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Splash|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Splash|11"]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Cup Chime|Cup Chime]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Cup Chime|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Cup Chime|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Cup Chime|11"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Concert|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Concert|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium Weight''' - 17" 18" 19" 20" 21"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Heavy''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Thin''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Heavy|Concert Heavy]] - 17" 18" 19" [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Crotale|Crotale]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 1 Octave Set|1 Octave Set]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 2 Octave Set|2 Octave Set]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 2½ Octave Set|2½ Octave Set]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Sound Edge|Concert Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Sound Edge|20"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Marching|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Marching|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Marching|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Marching|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Marching|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching Sound Edge|Marching Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Marching Sound Edge|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Marching Sound Edge|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Marching Sound Edge|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Marching Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Marching Sound Edge|20"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Modern Essentials ==<br />
[[File:FORMULA602 ME Group.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Fredy 2016 drumhead mag 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Interview with Fredy Studer describing the development of the M.E. 602 and Vinnie Colaiuta's involvement.]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 2013<br><br />
'''Background:''' Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), offering a complete new wide and dynamic sound dimension, developed in close collaboration with Vinnie Colaiuta, handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, conceived and executed according to Vinnie’s uncompromising sound concepts for a wide all-round application. Formula 602 Modern Essentials cymbals combine the essence of the Formula 602 Classic Sounds models – transparency and stick definition – with the richness, warmth, darkness and a bit of complexity of the Signature Traditionals series besides providing slightly more pizzazz than its Classic Sounds siblings.<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Low to medium loud settings •especially well-suited for recording, live • extremely versatile cymbals for a wide range of music styles such as Pop, Rock, Jazz, Fusion, Blues, R&B, Country, Folk, acoustic music <br><br />
'''Sound:'''Deep, full, rich, warm, lively, silvery, dynamic, controlled and precise • Cymbals that combine clarity, consistency with deepness and warmth, yet providing a modern versatile sound character with dynamic, potent, well balanced qualities and a responsive, soft feel<br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 21" Ride|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 24" Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 17" Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 19" Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China|China]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" China|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" China|22"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 10" Splash|10"]]<br><br><br />
== Seven Sound Set ==<br />
[[File:Paiste seven sound set advert.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1968 brochure]]<br />
[[File:7 sound set.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Complete 7 sound set]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1977<br><br />
'''Background:''' The following description of the Seven Sound Set was printed in Paiste's 1969 catalog:<br><br />
"A set of seven cymbals each in a new unusual sound-color. Sound colors the demanding drummer is looking for to enrich his personal cymbal set. Particularly, the SEVEN SOUND SET enables the studio drummer to fulfill the many and often unusual sound demands involved in modern recording and studio work."<br><br />
<br />
'''Flat ride Background:''' From a 2006 Robert Paiste interview: "The Flat Ride is the first and the last cymbal that more or less came out of a gag. That was with Joe Morello, he visited here once and at that time there were these new super thin Swiss watches, he was fascinated with his new super thin watch that he had just got. He said, "why don't you make a cymbal like that?" I wondered, what does a cymbal without a bell sound like? Well, we were making gongs, but I didn't relate to that, we built prototypes, which surprised us very much with the sound."<br> <br />
The very early versions or possibly prototypes were labeled "Space Sound" in medium (confirmed) and possibly thin weight. It also believed that less than a dozen of these were made before the name changed to "flat ride"<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's <br><br />
* '''1 [[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 1|Seven Sound Set 1 - 8"]]<br><br />
* '''2 [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 2|Seven Sound Set 2 - 11"]]<br><br />
* '''3 [[Paiste Bright Ride|Bright Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 3|Seven Sound Set 3 - 17"]]<br><br />
* '''4 [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 4|Seven Sound Set 4 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''5 [[Paiste Ride/Crash|Ride/Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 5|Seven Sound Set 5 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''6 [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 6|Seven Sound Set 6 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''7 [[Paiste Deep Ride|Deep Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 7|Seven Sound Set 7 - 20"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Joe Morello Set ==<br />
[[File:Joe morello.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1975 Paiste profiles]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967ish - 1977 (based on serial numbers)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1976<br><br />
'''Background:''' "Late '65, early '66 after Ludwig took over the distribution of Formula 602's for North America, Joe Morello was approached by Bill Ludwig to endorse Paiste. Since Joe played and endorsed Ludwig Drums, he was the obvious choice for a signature cymbal set baring his name. Paiste catalog: "In personal collaboration with Joe Morello, this beautiful melodically coordinated set was created" A custom set of Formula 602 cymbals made to Joe's specification (the 1st. artist model!) comprising of 14" sound edge hi hats, 17", 18" and 20" sizes. Visual cues show much finer lathing and possibly different hammering compared to the standard 602's<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's possibly a little darker?<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 20"|20"]]<br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 17"|17"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash/Ride|Crash/Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 18"|18"]]<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 14"|14"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Production Eras ==<br />
=== Super Formula 602 (1957/59 - 1963 according to advertising data)===<br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957 when he first opened the Swiss factory (at that point it was a one room shop!).<br><br />
It should be noted that Robert founded the Swiss factory across lake Sempach from where their future B20 alloy supplier "Metallwerke Dornach/Swissmetal" was located (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point, little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!). He initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production, Swissmetal previously had not rolled it to such a thin specification but did have the equipment to do it reliably, Robert literally had to teach the foundry technicians how to roll the blanks to his thin specification without cracking!<br><br />
It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, this means that most likely the "Super formula" didn't reach widespread distribution until about 1959. This (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602".<br><br />
<br />
*One of the stamps of this series (there are two distinct styles) still looks very similar to the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul STAMBUL series] stamp. The Super formula series with the Stambul style logo seems to come in two versions: one with Formula 602 label and one without (see below).<br> <br />
<br />
*There are also two versions of the second style which looks like the early formula 602 stamp: one has the word "Super" written to the upper right ("plain stamp- Super"), the second variation does not have the word "Super" (we call this the "plain stamp"), both leave off the words "formula 602" these variations are thought to represent the evolution of the trademark for the super formula 602 series just as it was coming out.<br><br />
<br />
*It is speculated that the "Super formula" term comes from the process that Swissmetal used to heat, mix, pour and hot roll the B20 alloy.<br><br />
Note: There is an entirely separate series called [http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Super] which is not made from B20 alloy and came later. This has caused a lot of confusion over the years.<br> '''Sound sample:''' [https://youtu.be/Gb_Gl0xqbJs<b>Super Formula 24" ride</b>]<br><br />
<gallery caption="Super Formula 602" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 1.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 2.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 1959 63 catalog back cover.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste Super Stambul Standard ad (Melos 1962).jpg|The super formula 602 is still listed in "Melos" magazine in 1962<br />
File:Super 602 blank logo 1.jpg| "plain stamp"<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-logo.jpg||"plain stamp-Super"<br />
File:Paiste-22-2794-stamp.jpg|"Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Early 602 super stambul type logo.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery caption="Examples" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:602 14 super thinsm.jpg|14" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 15 thin.jpg|15" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-top.jpg|15" "plain stamp"<br />
File:PXL 20221112 030503044.jpg|15" "plain stamp" hi hats<br />
File:Paiste-602-super-top.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:16 super formula 2.jpg|16" "Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:18 super formula stambul stmp.jpg|18" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-pre602-top.jpg|22" "plain stamp" 602 Cymbal 22"<br />
File:Cleaned super formulas.jpg| Stambul stamp and plain stamp comparison<br />
File:Super x plain stamp location.jpg|Plain stamp location comparison<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Preserial Era (~1962/63 - 1971/72)===<br />
This is the first true era of the Formula 602 series. <br />
==== Early "E over trade" stamp (~1962 to about 1965)====<br />
This early era is identified by several cymbals with these stamps that we have observed and or own, the "E over trade stamp" is the first stamp Paiste used on the early formula 602 series. It is relatively easy to spot the difference between this early stamp the perserial "Solid stamp" and 1970's "Outline stamp" formats.<br />
The discovery of the early 60's logos illustrated in the catalogs below helped confirm the difference.<br><br />
The E over trade stamp has two subtle variations (see pictures below), one version has a wide gap between "Formula 602" and "made in Switzerland" and the other has a much smaller gap. Also, the size of the text in general is smaller and or a different font on the "wide gap stamp" (see side by side comparison below).<br><br />
The 602 "Aribiter custom" was also produced during this period and possibly extended into the "solid stamp" era. <br />
<gallery caption="E over Trade" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:63 catalog 20.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste 1963 catalog a.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste-early-602-stamp3.jpg| "E over trade" small gap stamp<br />
File:PXL 20221029 234009393.jpg| "E over trade" large gap stamp<br />
File:Large gap small gap.jpg| large gap/small gap comparison<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:602 18 e over trade 2.jpg|18 medium<br />
File:PXL 20221029 233944523.jpg|22" medium ride<br />
File:Arbiter 602.jpg|Arbiter "Custom" stamp<br />
</gallery ><br />
==== Solid Stamp (~1965 - early/mid 1972)====<br />
In simplest terms, the name "solid stamp" comes from the solid block letters that comprise the words "Paiste and "Formula 602", this stamp was used roughly from 1965 to 1972.<br><br />
The earliest example we have seen of the Solid Stamp is from a 1965 catalog shown below. We believe the change of stamp coincided with Ludwig taking over North American distribution in late 1964/early 1965.<br> <br />
There are some exceptions where a cymbal was made during the preserial era and stamped with a "solid stamp" and ink, then the cymbal sat in the vault for a few years, the cymbal was then stamped with a serial number when it was shipped to the distributor (see example below).<br><br />
<gallery caption="Solid Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 1965ish catalog 1.jpg| ~1965 catalog<br />
File:Paiste 63 catalog 2.jpg|1965 catalog showing "modern" stamp format<br />
File:Paiste-602-solid.jpg|annotated solid stamp<br />
File:Paiste-18-1510-stamp.jpg|solid stamp<br />
File:Solid stamp b.jpg|<br />
File:PXL 20230528 003028603.jpg|<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:PXL 20221228 020839223.jpg|solid stamp with 1974 serial number<br />
File:602 transition ink.jpg|close up of solid stamp<br />
File:23 Heavy 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Black Label Era (1972 -1981)===<br />
There are two different embossed stamps which are found in this era: solid stamp early on and then the outline stamp for the rest of the era. then there are two oddities: an archaic "E over trade" stamp for German 602's and the super formula stamp "plain stamp" for Rogers distributed dark rides).<br> <br />
This era represents cymbals produced from about mid 1972 to mid 1981 before colored labels were silkscreened on the top and bottom. Almost all Black Label era cymbals have serial numbers but there are a few examples of cymbals from the early 1970s which have Black Label style ink but no serial number. <br />
<br />
==== Outline Stamp (1972-1981)====<br />
The Outline Stamp is used from just before serial numbers appear until the Blue Label era (1981). If you see a Formula 602 cymbal with an Outline Stamp it is something like 99% likely to have a serial number. <br />
<gallery caption="Outline Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-outline-stamp.jpg|Annotated Outline Stamp<br />
File:Outline stamp b.jpeg|1980<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055608775.jpg|1976<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055717280.jpg|1975<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055759138.jpg|1980<br />
File:Solid vs outline stmp.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
File:PXL 20230529 021307993.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
</gallery><br />
==== Rogers U.S. 602 Dark Ride '76-'77 and European 602 version 1975-1978====<br />
The super formula 602 "plain stamp" appears on Rogers U.S. distributed Dark Rides from 1976-1977 this stamp does not have the "Formula 602" on the bottom of the stamp. So far every Rogers U.S dark ride cymbal we have seen has a serial number.<br><br />
We have also observed sor far from dozens of examples that all European distributed dark rides were stamped with the standard "outline stamp" from the black label era ('72 -'81), in addition, with a few exceptions all have the "Formula 602" ink printed above the bell.<br><br />
We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing![https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Formula_602_22%22_Dark_Ride <b>More on the Dark ride page!</b>]<br />
<gallery caption="602 Dark ride" heights="100" mode="packed">><br />
File:Super formula plain stamp.jpg|The super formula 602 "plain stamp" is identical to the stamp used on the Rogers 602 dark rides!<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-stamp.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Dark-stamp.jpg|European Dark Ride: "outline stamp"<br />
File:Trans 602 22 dark ride stamps.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:602 22 dark ride.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-top.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:22 dark 4.jpg|European dark ride with outline stamp<br />
File:22 dark 2.jpg|European dark ride outline stamp<br />
File:349227047 214684508023232 989629301524005366 n.jpg|selection of European dark rides stamped with the standard "outline stamp", bottom right 2 cymbals are early Sound creations<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==== German 602's (early 1960's and mid 1970's?) ====<br />
We know the German factory "finished" 602's in the early/mid 60's when production was ramping up:<br />
<br />
(**) Correspondence with Paiste Switzerland:<br><br />
<i>"By reason of a distributed capacitance, we have some Formula 602's that have been finished in Germany at the end of the 1950's.<br><br />
They were annealed and hammered in Switzerland and Paiste Germany has completed them. That’s the reason they have a stamp “made in Germany”.<br><br />
<br />
Kind regards, Customer Service Department<br><br />
Paiste Switzerland"</i><br><br><br />
<br />
In the 1970's, the German 602's were meant for the German market and probably certain countries in Central Europe and eastern Europe, everyone else got Swiss produced 602's.<br />
We have found a return of German 602's from about 1975 to 1977, they can be identified from the archaic "E over trade" stamp (no "made in Switzerland") and a serial number starting with a "1".<br />
<gallery caption="Made in West Germany" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:German 602.jpg| 1960's German 602<br />
File:16 german 602.jpg|E over trade stamp W/O "made in Switzerland"<br />
File:German 602 flat3.jpg|German made 7 sound set<br />
File:German 602 flat2.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:German 602 flat1.jpg|German flat rides had "made under license" under the patent numbers<br />
File:German 602 stamp.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-serial.jpg|1975 serial<br />
File:14-990-1000-top.jpg|<br />
File:18-1510-side.jpg|Joe Morello 602 made in Germany!<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Blue Label Era ===<br />
During the Blue Label era (1981-1993) an embossed stamp was no longer applied. Instead Paiste used blue ink.<br />
<gallery caption="Blue Label" heights="150" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-ink.jpeg|Blue ink 602 Logo<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-inkb.jpeg|Blue ink pAisTe on bottom<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-model.jpeg|Blue model ink<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-top.jpg|Top view<br />
</gallery><br />
[[File:Plasko thin crashes.jpg|1700px|]]<br />
<br><br />
<br />
<br />
We estimate the year of change from PreSerial to Black to Blue based on the serial numbers we find:<br><br />
Black label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br><br />
<br><br />
1971: none so far<br><br />
1972: 29<br><br />
1973: 40<br><br />
1974: 41<br><br />
1975: 27<br><br />
1976: 26<br><br />
1977: 32<br><br />
1978: 37<br><br />
1979: 28<br><br />
1980: 18<br><br />
1981: 18<br><br />
1982: 1 (serial number PAISTE 602 / 238079)<br><br />
1983: none so far<br><br />
<br><br />
Blue label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br> <br />
<br><br />
1980: none so far<br><br />
1981: 32<br><br />
1982: 23<br><br />
1983: 17<br><br />
1984: 19<br><br />
1985: 15<br><br />
1986: 13<br><br />
1987: 12<br><br />
1988: 21<br><br />
1989: 8<br><br />
1990: 9<br><br />
1991: 2<br><br />
1992: 4<br><br />
1993: none so far<br><br />
<br />
Note the importance of the prefix. Without the PAISTE 602 prefix that one 1982 Black Label cymbal would have been 1972. If that serial number had prefix pAisTe it would be 1992. Prefix matters, although there are sometimes other ways to correctly assign the decade based on ink and for specific models. If the serial number has a prefix above it -- pay attention. That's what makes the decade (thus the whole serial number) unique. We think the myth of serial numbers starting in 1970 arose because people were not paying proper attention to the prefix. The other contributing factor is not treating the German made serial numbering separately. <br />
<br />
=== Laser Stamp Era ===<br />
When the Formula 602 cymbals were reissued in 2011 they first came out with 8 digit serial numbers as seen on the last of the Blue Label cymbals. Very soon after this Paiste switched to a laser stamp which is on the bottom rather than the top. The Laser Stamp Era is also referred to as the Reissue Era, although once again there are a very few Reissued Formula 602s which don't have a laser stamp. <br />
<gallery caption="Laser Stamp" heights="150" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-2011-serial.jpg|2011 embossed serial<br />
File:Paiste-602-laser-stamp.jpg|Laser stamp from 2015<br />
</gallery><br />
<br><br><br />
--------<br />
Information/research from: Steve Black, Todd Little, Dan Garza, the majority of the individual cymbal model/size pictures courtesy of "Splash Baker" and her blue label collection.<br><br />
#Modern Drummer Equipment Annual 1988-89<br><br />
#PAISTE/Ludwig Seven Sound Set Leaflet<br><br />
#Paiste "Six Cymbal Lines" Ad 1981<br><br />
#2019 PAISTE.com<br><br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste|Paiste Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602&diff=80774Paiste Formula 6022025-09-04T03:34:24Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Formula 602 ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:602 logo Blue mod.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 logo]]<br />
[[File:Fo 602.png|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:1985 602 catalog.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1962/63ish (based on advertising and catalogs)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1994 (based on serial numbers) then reissued 2011 to present<br><br />
'''Background:''' <br />
One of the world’s most revered and legendary cymbal lines in history, renown and loved for its fine, delicate musical tone.<br><br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957, this (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602" the predecessor to the Formula 602. It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, then we think the "Super Formula" series ran to about 1962. Evidence shows that the Formula 602 series became available in 1962 and was produced until Paiste's B20 supplier Swissmetal ran into financial difficulties and stopped production of blanks in 1994.<br><br />
'''Innovation:''' Second B20 cymbal made by Paiste, the Formula 602 line also saw the introduction of the [[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]], the [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]], [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] with a Turkish bell, [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] and [[Paiste Bell|Bell]]. <br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B20_Alloy|B20 Bronze]], also known as "Bell Bronze".<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manually machine hammered, fine tuned with hand hammering and hand lathed B20 bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Most volume settings • Low to medium loud settings • especially well-suited for recording, live • Jazz, Fusion, Blues, Pop and Rock, Country, Folk, acoustic music.<br><br />
'''Users:''' Professional musicians, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound<br><br />
<b>Late 1960's early 1970's formula 602 users:</b> [https://youtu.be/axEK3x5KIYc?t=30 '''Clive Bunker playing a shiny new set of 602's in 1970 @ the isle of Wight festival.''']<br />
[[File:602 players.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 Players]]<br />
'''Sound:''' <br />
* Musical, transparent, beautiful, rich, colorful, full, clear, expressive sound • The model range features everything from particularly delicate, well balanced and sensitive to expressive, potent and powerful and projective qualities<br />
* Warm, silvery, mellow, cool, light, fine, precise and controlled • Cymbals with clarity and retro vintage character combined with a velvety, sensitive, very responsive feel. (4)<br><br />
* Formula 602 sounds are very precise, very clear and very pure. They are suited to acoustic music, jazz, classical performances and recording. Only a delicate touch is required to produce their distinctive, cool and natural response. (1)<br />
* Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, Formula 602 Classic Sounds cymbals produce a true, pure sound of unique clarity and consistency.<br><br />
=== Formula 602 Models in Production ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Thin|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Paperthin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Paperthin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Paperthin|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Bell|13"]]<br><br />
=== <b>Discontinued Models & Sizes</b> ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Dark Ride|Dark Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Heavy|Flatride Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Heavy|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Medium|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Flatride Thin|24"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Heavy|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Heavy|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Heavy|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Heavy|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Heavy|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Heavy|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Heavy|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Ride|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Ride|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium Ride|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium Ride|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium Ride|21"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Medium|Space Sound Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Thin|Space Sound Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Thin|20"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Medium|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Medium|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Medium|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Medium|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Medium|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Paperthin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Paperthin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Paperthin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Paperthin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Paperthin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Paperthin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Paperthin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Paperthin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Paperthin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Paperthin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Paperthin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Paperthin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Paperthin|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Thin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Thin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Thin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin|26"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 28" Thin|28"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin Crash|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin Crash|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin Crash|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin Crash|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin Crash|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin Crash|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin Crash|26"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Hi-Hat|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Hi-Hat|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" China Type|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" China Type|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" China Type|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" China Type|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" China Type|24"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
[[File:Bells.JPG|thumb|right|450px|Bells &.Heavy Bells]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 9" Heavy Bell|9"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy Bell|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Splash|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Splash|11"]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Cup Chime|Cup Chime]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Cup Chime|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Cup Chime|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Cup Chime|11"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Concert|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Concert|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium Weight''' - 17" 18" 19" 20" 21"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Heavy''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Thin''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Heavy|Concert Heavy]] - 17" 18" 19" [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Crotale|Crotale]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 1 Octave Set|1 Octave Set]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 2 Octave Set|2 Octave Set]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Crotale 2½ Octave Set|2½ Octave Set]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Sound Edge|Concert Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Sound Edge|20"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Marching|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Marching|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Marching|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Marching|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Marching|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching Sound Edge|Marching Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Marching Sound Edge|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Marching Sound Edge|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Marching Sound Edge|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Marching Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Marching Sound Edge|20"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Modern Essentials ==<br />
[[File:FORMULA602 ME Group.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Fredy 2016 drumhead mag 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Interview with Fredy Studer describing the development of the M.E. 602 and Vinnie Colaiuta's involvement.]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 2013<br><br />
'''Background:''' Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), offering a complete new wide and dynamic sound dimension, developed in close collaboration with Vinnie Colaiuta, handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, conceived and executed according to Vinnie’s uncompromising sound concepts for a wide all-round application. Formula 602 Modern Essentials cymbals combine the essence of the Formula 602 Classic Sounds models – transparency and stick definition – with the richness, warmth, darkness and a bit of complexity of the Signature Traditionals series besides providing slightly more pizzazz than its Classic Sounds siblings.<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Low to medium loud settings •especially well-suited for recording, live • extremely versatile cymbals for a wide range of music styles such as Pop, Rock, Jazz, Fusion, Blues, R&B, Country, Folk, acoustic music <br><br />
'''Sound:'''Deep, full, rich, warm, lively, silvery, dynamic, controlled and precise • Cymbals that combine clarity, consistency with deepness and warmth, yet providing a modern versatile sound character with dynamic, potent, well balanced qualities and a responsive, soft feel<br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 21" Ride|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 24" Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 17" Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 19" Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China|China]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" China|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" China|22"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 10" Splash|10"]]<br><br><br />
== Seven Sound Set ==<br />
[[File:Paiste seven sound set advert.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1968 brochure]]<br />
[[File:7 sound set.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Complete 7 sound set]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1977<br><br />
'''Background:''' The following description of the Seven Sound Set was printed in Paiste's 1969 catalog:<br><br />
"A set of seven cymbals each in a new unusual sound-color. Sound colors the demanding drummer is looking for to enrich his personal cymbal set. Particularly, the SEVEN SOUND SET enables the studio drummer to fulfill the many and often unusual sound demands involved in modern recording and studio work."<br><br />
<br />
'''Flat ride Background:''' From a 2006 Robert Paiste interview: "The Flat Ride is the first and the last cymbal that more or less came out of a gag. That was with Joe Morello, he visited here once and at that time there were these new super thin Swiss watches, he was fascinated with his new super thin watch that he had just got. He said, "why don't you make a cymbal like that?" I wondered, what does a cymbal without a bell sound like? Well, we were making gongs, but I didn't relate to that, we built prototypes, which surprised us very much with the sound."<br> <br />
The very early versions or possibly prototypes were labeled "Space Sound" in medium (confirmed) and possibly thin weight. It also believed that less than a dozen of these were made before the name changed to "flat ride"<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's <br><br />
* '''1 [[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 1|Seven Sound Set 1 - 8"]]<br><br />
* '''2 [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 2|Seven Sound Set 2 - 11"]]<br><br />
* '''3 [[Paiste Bright Ride|Bright Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 3|Seven Sound Set 3 - 17"]]<br><br />
* '''4 [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 4|Seven Sound Set 4 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''5 [[Paiste Ride/Crash|Ride/Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 5|Seven Sound Set 5 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''6 [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 6|Seven Sound Set 6 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''7 [[Paiste Deep Ride|Deep Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 7|Seven Sound Set 7 - 20"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Joe Morello Set ==<br />
[[File:Joe morello.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1975 Paiste profiles]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967ish - 1977 (based on serial numbers)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1976<br><br />
'''Background:''' "Late '65, early '66 after Ludwig took over the distribution of Formula 602's for North America, Joe Morello was approached by Bill Ludwig to endorse Paiste. Since Joe played and endorsed Ludwig Drums, he was the obvious choice for a signature cymbal set baring his name. Paiste catalog: "In personal collaboration with Joe Morello, this beautiful melodically coordinated set was created" A custom set of Formula 602 cymbals made to Joe's specification (the 1st. artist model!) comprising of 14" sound edge hi hats, 17", 18" and 20" sizes. Visual cues show much finer lathing and possibly different hammering compared to the standard 602's<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's possibly a little darker?<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 20"|20"]]<br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 17"|17"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash/Ride|Crash/Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 18"|18"]]<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 14"|14"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Production Eras ==<br />
=== Super Formula 602 (1957/59 - 1963 according to advertising data)===<br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957 when he first opened the Swiss factory (at that point it was a one room shop!).<br><br />
It should be noted that Robert founded the Swiss factory across lake Sempach from where their future B20 alloy supplier "Metallwerke Dornach/Swissmetal" was located (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point, little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!). He initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production, Swissmetal previously had not rolled it to such a thin specification but did have the equipment to do it reliably, Robert literally had to teach the foundry technicians how to roll the blanks to his thin specification without cracking!<br><br />
It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, this means that most likely the "Super formula" didn't reach widespread distribution until about 1959. This (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602".<br><br />
<br />
*One of the stamps of this series (there are two distinct styles) still looks very similar to the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul STAMBUL series] stamp. The Super formula series with the Stambul style logo seems to come in two versions: one with Formula 602 label and one without (see below).<br> <br />
<br />
*There are also two versions of the second style which looks like the early formula 602 stamp: one has the word "Super" written to the upper right ("plain stamp- Super"), the second variation does not have the word "Super" (we call this the "plain stamp"), both leave off the words "formula 602" these variations are thought to represent the evolution of the trademark for the super formula 602 series just as it was coming out.<br><br />
<br />
*It is speculated that the "Super formula" term comes from the process that Swissmetal used to heat, mix, pour and hot roll the B20 alloy.<br><br />
Note: There is an entirely separate series called [http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Super] which is not made from B20 alloy and came later. This has caused a lot of confusion over the years.<br> '''Sound sample:''' [https://youtu.be/Gb_Gl0xqbJs<b>Super Formula 24" ride</b>]<br><br />
<gallery caption="Super Formula 602" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 1.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 2.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 1959 63 catalog back cover.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste Super Stambul Standard ad (Melos 1962).jpg|The super formula 602 is still listed in "Melos" magazine in 1962<br />
File:Paiste-22-2794-stamp.jpg|"Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Early 602 super stambul type logo.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 blank logo 1.jpg| "plain stamp"<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-logo.jpg||"plain stamp-Super"<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery caption="Examples" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:602 14 super thinsm.jpg|14" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 15 thin.jpg|15" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-top.jpg|15" "plain stamp"<br />
File:PXL 20221112 030503044.jpg|15" "plain stamp" hi hats<br />
File:Paiste-602-super-top.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:16 super formula 2.jpg|16" "Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:18 super formula stambul stmp.jpg|18" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-pre602-top.jpg|22" "plain stamp" 602 Cymbal 22"<br />
File:Cleaned super formulas.jpg| Stambul stamp and plain stamp comparison<br />
File:Super x plain stamp location.jpg|Plain stamp location comparison<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Preserial Era (~1962/63 - 1971/72)===<br />
This is the first true era of the Formula 602 series. <br />
==== Early "E over trade" stamp (~1962 to about 1965)====<br />
This early era is identified by several cymbals with these stamps that we have observed and or own, the "E over trade stamp" is the first stamp Paiste used on the early formula 602 series. It is relatively easy to spot the difference between this early stamp the perserial "Solid stamp" and 1970's "Outline stamp" formats.<br />
The discovery of the early 60's logos illustrated in the catalogs below helped confirm the difference.<br><br />
The E over trade stamp has two subtle variations (see pictures below), one version has a wide gap between "Formula 602" and "made in Switzerland" and the other has a much smaller gap. Also, the size of the text in general is smaller and or a different font on the "wide gap stamp" (see side by side comparison below)<br> <br />
<gallery caption="E over Trade" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:63 catalog 20.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste 1963 catalog a.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste-early-602-stamp3.jpg| "E over trade" small gap stamp<br />
File:PXL 20221029 234009393.jpg| "E over trade" large gap stamp<br />
File:Large gap small gap.jpg| large gap/small gap comparison<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:602 18 e over trade 2.jpg|18 medium<br />
File:PXL 20221029 233944523.jpg|22" medium ride<br />
File:Arbiter 602.jpg|Arbiter "Custom" stamp<br />
</gallery ><br />
==== Solid Stamp (~1965 - early/mid 1972)====<br />
In simplest terms, the name "solid stamp" comes from the solid block letters that comprise the words "Paiste and "Formula 602", this stamp was used roughly from 1965 to 1972.<br><br />
The earliest example we have seen of the Solid Stamp is from a 1965 catalog shown below. We believe the change of stamp coincided with Ludwig taking over North American distribution in late 1964/early 1965.<br> <br />
There are some exceptions where a cymbal was made during the preserial era and stamped with a "solid stamp" and ink, then the cymbal sat in the vault for a few years, the cymbal was then stamped with a serial number when it was shipped to the distributor (see example below).<br><br />
<gallery caption="Solid Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 1965ish catalog 1.jpg| ~1965 catalog<br />
File:Paiste 63 catalog 2.jpg|1965 catalog showing "modern" stamp format<br />
File:Paiste-602-solid.jpg|annotated solid stamp<br />
File:Paiste-18-1510-stamp.jpg|solid stamp<br />
File:Solid stamp b.jpg|<br />
File:PXL 20230528 003028603.jpg|<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:PXL 20221228 020839223.jpg|solid stamp with 1974 serial number<br />
File:602 transition ink.jpg|close up of solid stamp<br />
File:23 Heavy 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Black Label Era (1972 -1981)===<br />
There are two different embossed stamps which are found in this era: solid stamp early on and then the outline stamp for the rest of the era. then there are two oddities: an archaic "E over trade" stamp for German 602's and the super formula stamp "plain stamp" for Rogers distributed dark rides).<br> <br />
This era represents cymbals produced from about mid 1972 to mid 1981 before colored labels were silkscreened on the top and bottom. Almost all Black Label era cymbals have serial numbers but there are a few examples of cymbals from the early 1970s which have Black Label style ink but no serial number. <br />
<br />
==== Outline Stamp (1972-1981)====<br />
The Outline Stamp is used from just before serial numbers appear until the Blue Label era (1981). If you see a Formula 602 cymbal with an Outline Stamp it is something like 99% likely to have a serial number. <br />
<gallery caption="Outline Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-outline-stamp.jpg|Annotated Outline Stamp<br />
File:Outline stamp b.jpeg|1980<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055608775.jpg|1976<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055717280.jpg|1975<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055759138.jpg|1980<br />
File:Solid vs outline stmp.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
File:PXL 20230529 021307993.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
</gallery><br />
==== Rogers U.S. 602 Dark Ride '76-'77 and European 602 version 1975-1978====<br />
The super formula 602 "plain stamp" appears on Rogers U.S. distributed Dark Rides from 1976-1977 this stamp does not have the "Formula 602" on the bottom of the stamp. So far every Rogers U.S dark ride cymbal we have seen has a serial number.<br><br />
We have also observed sor far from dozens of examples that all European distributed dark rides were stamped with the standard "outline stamp" from the black label era ('72 -'81), in addition, with a few exceptions all have the "Formula 602" ink printed above the bell.<br><br />
We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing![https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Formula_602_22%22_Dark_Ride <b>More on the Dark ride page!</b>]<br />
<gallery caption="602 Dark ride" heights="100" mode="packed">><br />
File:Super formula plain stamp.jpg|The super formula 602 "plain stamp" is identical to the stamp used on the Rogers 602 dark rides!<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-stamp.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Dark-stamp.jpg|European Dark Ride: "outline stamp"<br />
File:Trans 602 22 dark ride stamps.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:602 22 dark ride.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-top.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:22 dark 4.jpg|European dark ride with outline stamp<br />
File:22 dark 2.jpg|European dark ride outline stamp<br />
File:349227047 214684508023232 989629301524005366 n.jpg|selection of European dark rides stamped with the standard "outline stamp", bottom right 2 cymbals are early Sound creations<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==== German 602's (early 1960's and mid 1970's?) ====<br />
We know the German factory "finished" 602's in the early/mid 60's when production was ramping up:<br />
<br />
(**) Correspondence with Paiste Switzerland:<br><br />
<i>"By reason of a distributed capacitance, we have some Formula 602's that have been finished in Germany at the end of the 1950's.<br><br />
They were annealed and hammered in Switzerland and Paiste Germany has completed them. That’s the reason they have a stamp “made in Germany”.<br><br />
<br />
Kind regards, Customer Service Department<br><br />
Paiste Switzerland"</i><br><br><br />
<br />
In the 1970's, the German 602's were meant for the German market and probably certain countries in Central Europe and eastern Europe, everyone else got Swiss produced 602's.<br />
We have found a return of German 602's from about 1975 to 1977, they can be identified from the archaic "E over trade" stamp (no "made in Switzerland") and a serial number starting with a "1".<br />
<gallery caption="Made in West Germany" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:German 602.jpg| 1960's German 602<br />
File:16 german 602.jpg<br />
File:German 602 flat3.jpg<br />
File:German 602 flat2.jpg<br />
File:German 602 flat1.jpg<br />
File:German 602 stamp.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-serial.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-top.jpg|<br />
File:18-1510-side.jpg|<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Blue Label Era ===<br />
During the Blue Label era (1981-1993) an embossed stamp was no longer applied. Instead Paiste used blue ink.<br />
<gallery caption="Blue Label" heights="150" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-ink.jpeg|Blue ink 602 Logo<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-inkb.jpeg|Blue ink pAisTe on bottom<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-model.jpeg|Blue model ink<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-top.jpg|Top view<br />
</gallery><br />
[[File:Plasko thin crashes.jpg|1600px|]]<br />
<br><br />
We estimate the year of change from Pre Serial to Black to Blue based on the serial numbers we find:<br><br />
Black label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br><br />
<br><br />
1971: none so far<br><br />
1972: 29<br><br />
1973: 40<br><br />
1974: 41<br><br />
1975: 27<br><br />
1976: 26<br><br />
1977: 32<br><br />
1978: 37<br><br />
1979: 28<br><br />
1980: 18<br><br />
1981: 18<br><br />
1982: 1 (serial number PAISTE 602 / 238079)<br><br />
1983: none so far<br><br />
<br><br />
Blue label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br> <br />
<br><br />
1980: none so far<br><br />
1981: 32<br><br />
1982: 23<br><br />
1983: 17<br><br />
1984: 19<br><br />
1985: 15<br><br />
1986: 13<br><br />
1987: 12<br><br />
1988: 21<br><br />
1989: 8<br><br />
1990: 9<br><br />
1991: 2<br><br />
1992: 4<br><br />
1993: none so far<br><br />
<br />
Note the importance of the prefix. Without the PAISTE 602 prefix that one 1982 Black Label cymbal would have been 1972. If that serial number had prefix pAisTe it would be 1992. Prefix matters, although there are sometimes other ways to correctly assign the decade based on ink and for specific models. If the serial number has a prefix above it -- pay attention. That's what makes the decade (thus the whole serial number) unique. We think the myth of serial numbers starting in 1970 arose because people were not paying proper attention to the prefix. The other contributing factor is not treating the German made serial numbering separately. <br />
<br />
=== Laser Stamp Era ===<br />
When the Formula 602 cymbals were reissued in 2011 they first came out with 8 digit serial numbers as seen on the last of the Blue Label cymbals. Very soon after this Paiste switched to a laser stamp which is on the bottom rather than the top. The Laser Stamp Era is also referred to as the Reissue Era, although once again there are a very few Reissued Formula 602s which don't have a laser stamp. <br />
<gallery caption="Laser Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-2011-serial.jpg|2011 embossed serial<br />
File:Paiste-602-laser-stamp.jpg|Laser stamp from 2015<br />
</gallery><br />
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Information from: Steve Black, the majority of the individual cymbal model/size pictures courtesy of "Splash Baker" and her blue label collection.<br><br />
#Modern Drummer Equipment Annual 1988-89<br><br />
#PAISTE/Ludwig Seven Sound Set Leaflet<br><br />
#Paiste "Six Cymbal Lines" Ad 1981<br><br />
#2019 PAISTE.com<br><br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste|Paiste Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:German_602_flat1.jpg&diff=80773File:German 602 flat1.jpg2025-09-04T03:19:44Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:German_602_flat2.jpg&diff=80772File:German 602 flat2.jpg2025-09-04T03:17:54Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:German_602_flat4.jpg&diff=80771File:German 602 flat4.jpg2025-09-04T03:17:34Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:German_602_flat3.jpg&diff=80770File:German 602 flat3.jpg2025-09-04T03:17:26Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=UFIP&diff=80497UFIP2025-08-30T05:15:12Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>[[File:UFIP.jpg|thumb|right|650px]]<br />
<BIG> <br />
*[[UFIP History]]<br />
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*[[UFIP Series]]<br />
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*[[UFIP Types and Models]]<br />
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*[[UFIP Featured Artists]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Meinl&diff=80496Meinl2025-08-30T05:12:37Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>[[File:Meinl_logo.jpeg|thumb|right|650px]]<br />
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<BIG>*'''[[Meinl Series]]''' Browse cymbals by series. </BIG><br />
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<BIG>*'''[[Meinl Cymbal Type|Meinl Types & Models]]''' Browse cymbals by types & models.</BIG><br />
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<BIG>*'''[[Meinl Serial Numbers]]''' How to read Meinl's serial numbers.</BIG><br />
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<BIG>*'''[[Meinl Featured Artists]]''' Notable artists playing Meinl.</BIG><br />
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<BIG>*'''[[Meinl History]]'''</BIG><br />
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<BIG>*'''[[Meinl Advertising]]''' Browse Meinl ads </BIG></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=UFIP&diff=80495UFIP2025-08-30T05:11:41Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>[[File:UFIP.jpg|thumb|right|650px]]<br />
*[[UFIP History]]<br />
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*[[UFIP Series]]<br />
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*[[UFIP Types and Models]]<br />
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*[[UFIP Featured Artists]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=UFIP_History&diff=80494UFIP History2025-08-30T05:10:18Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>[[File:UFIP.jpg|thumb|right|450px]]<br />
In the early 20th century the "Agati-Tronci" company, a known pipe organ manufacturer, began the production of cymbals, as they were difficult to import from Turkey.<br> <br />
In 1926 a worker for the Tronci family, Fiorello Zanchi, left the company to start a new cymbal manufacturer with Manlio Biasei, the "Zanchi & Biasei" company. A number of cymbals manufacturers were founded in Pistoia after the First World War, starting a competition.<br><br />
A number of cymbals manufacturers were founded in Pistoia after the First World War, starting a competition.<br><br />
<br />
On January 6, 1931 four companies (Marradi-Benti, Zanchi & Biasei, Rosati Leopoldo and A. & B. Fratelli Tronci) founded a cooperative society called UFIP to stop the competition between cymbals manufacturers.<br> <br />
In 1947 Zanchi left UFIP to start his own company, Zanchi (later spelled "Zanki"). In 1968 UFIP changed from a cooperative society to an actual production company.<br><br />
<br />
At the beginning UFIP sold his cymbals under commission of various drums companies, initially with Turkish sounding names such as "Zinjian" (commissioned by Pearl, Ludwig and Premier), "Kashian" (commissioned by Slingerland), "Pasha" (commissioned by Rogers), "Ajaha" (commissioned by Gretsch) and "Super Constantinoples" (commissioned by Dolnet).<br> <br />
In the United States UFIP cymbals were sold as "Atlas" and "Abraxis" until, in the early nineties, the company began to use the "UFIP" name internationally.<br><br />
<br />
UFiP is being distributed in the United States by Davitt & Hanser music.<br />
<br />
'''From Paolo Sburlati, Paiste distributor in Italy:'''<br> <br />
<i> "There were several families in Pistoia, all bronze casters.<br> <br />
The Tronci family produced the big bronze gates at the entrance in Pistoia two centuries ago and they are still there today.<br> <br />
The boss of the families decided to get together and create a big cymbal factory called Unione Fabbricanti Italiani Piatti. All well at the beginning, but typical of hot blooded Tuscan people, they disagreed after short time and each boss went his own way, all creating new cymbal factories: Biasei with Spadaccini created Tosco, Roberto gave birth to Zanki and Luigi kept the name and the Ufip factory. They also started fighting each other on the market and this benefited the competition at the beginning."</i> <br> <br />
<br />
==Why is UFIP important and why are they different?== <br />
[[File:Centrifugal-casting-process.jpg|thumb|right|350px|centrifugal casting]]<br />
UFIP is the second oldest cymbal company (est. 1931) to produce cymbals from B20 bronze.<br> <br />
They are unique because they come from the Italian culture of church bell making or “bronze casters” as they call themselves. They use traditional techniques that have been practiced for several hundred if not a thousand years on casting bronze church bells.<br><br />
UFIP cymbals produced before 1978 or so were cast in cymbal shaped molds standing on edge. That is the Italian gravity casting method. At was after that time (1975-1978) when rotating molds came into general use. UFIP developed the “rotocasting” technique where molten bronze is poured into a spinning mold that is made in the shape of a cymbal: this includes the bell and the “bow” or curve of the cymbal.<br> <br />
This process produces a dense and consistent alloy without inclusions, porosity or defects. This process also creates a different sounding cymbal because it is not hot rolled or cold rolled at any point but it is hammered and lathed (most models).<br><br />
'''For several decades, UFIP was the only other cymbal company (besides Paiste) to make their own gongs.'''<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Ufip.jpg|UFIP!<br />
File:Ufipcopperandblanks.jpg|<br />
File:Ufipfurnace2.jpg|melting furnace<br />
File:Ufippourman.jpg|pouring bronze into the spinning mold<br />
File:Ufipmoldprep.jpg|mold preparation<br />
File:Ufiprawblanks.jpg|freshly cast blanks ready for hammering and lathing<br />
File:Ufiplatheshopfloor.jpg|lathing /finishing room<br />
File:Ufiplathemachine.jpg|lathing room<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
===What is centrifugal casting and why is it better?===<br />
The process involves using a centrifugal force (high-speed rotation action) to exert pressure on the molten metal, and it is poured from an external source into a spinning die. The centrifugal force acts to distribute the molten metal in the spinning die at pressures close to 100 times the force of gravity. The mold rotates until the whole casting solidifies. Because of the high G-forces involved in this casting method, the less dense materials, including impurities, are forced to go to the inside diameter periphery of the part, which is subsequently removed by machining, and defects related to gas and porosity are reduced.<br><br />
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===UFIP "Rosetta stone":===<br />
<br />
[[File:Ufipbrands.jpg|thumb|center|650px|]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602_22%22_Dark_Ride&diff=79360Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride2025-08-07T06:43:57Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
[[File:Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]<br />
[[File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-bot.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
<br />
'''Group:''' [[Paiste Cymbal Type#Rides|Rides]]<br><br />
'''Type:''' [[Paiste Dark Ride|Dark Ride]]<br><br />
'''Size:''' 22 Inch<br><br />
'''Series:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]]<br><br />
'''Weight:''' 2889g - 3475g<br><br />
'''Median Weight:''' 3240g (n=41) <br><br />
'''List Price:''' (from Rogers catalogs) $288 in 1977 is equivalent to about $1,505.07 today, $446 in 1979 is equivalent to about $1,945.52 today, $475 in 1980 is equivalent to about $1,825.59 today<br><br />
'''Years of production:''' 1975 - 1978, based on serial number dating, there are currently 8 non serial 602 Dark Rides documented.<br><br />
'''Sound file:'''[https://youtu.be/wJsI8-qvEEg?t=36 Five Vintage Paiste Dark Rides - 22" - 602, Sound Creation, Flatride] <br><br />
[https://youtu.be/LWioEhvalWk FORMULA 602 22" DARK RIDE 1976 3222G.]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/99zIdO94qh4 1975 serial European dark ride: Weight: 3268g Serial:541688]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/ad08Ycl6AM0 Formula 602 Dark Ride Two Side x Side: left is 3400g and right 3100g]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/tvLLZlwQaYk 1977 Rogers Formula 602 22" Dark Ride 3310g]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/bd_h0i_Yfis 1975 European dark ride]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/Y4BhOgS4YCQ Formula 602 22" Dark Ride 3229g]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/uDa8hRmDQ_Q Old K. Zildjian 22" & 602 Dark Ride: K. Zildjian at 2900g and 602 Dark Ride at 3100g.]<br><br />
[https://youtu.be/aCDMmhXnvdA 1977 602 Dark Ride]<br><br />
'''Paiste's Description:''' [[Paiste Dark Ride#Formula 602|<<< - >>>]]<br><br />
'''Review:''' <br><br />
Review written by <br><br />
'''Artist/song where it can be heard:''' [[Paiste Barry Altschul#Barry Altschul|Barry Altschul]], [[Paiste Erich Bachträgl#Erich Bachträgl|Erich Bachträgl]], [[Paiste Alex Bally#Alex Bally|Alex Bally]], [[Paiste Dan Brubeck#Dan Brubeck|Dan Brubeck]], [[Paiste Jerry Chardonnens#Jerry Chardonnens|Jerry Chardonnens]], [[Paiste Jon Christensen#Jon Christensen|Jon Christensen]], [[Paiste Pierre Courbois#Pierre Courbois|Pierre Courbois]], [[Jack DeJohnette#Paiste|Jack De Johnette]], [[Paiste Pierre Favre#Pierre Favre|Pierre Favre]], [[Paiste John Gilston#John Gilston|John Gilston]], [[Paiste Marc Hellman#Marc Hellman|Marc Hellman]], [[Paiste Jon Hiseman|Jon Hiseman]], [[Paiste John Marshall#John Marshall|John Marshall]], [[Louis T. Moholo]], [[Heinz von Moisy]], [[Fritz Ozmec]], [[Paiste Alex Riel#Alex Riel|Alex Riel]], [[Aldo Romano]], [[Peter Schmidlin]], [[Paiste Fredy Studer#Fredy Studer|Fredy Studer]]<br><br><br />
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<br />
=== History and Background ===<br />
[[File:Dark ride desc.jpg|thumb|right|350px|1977 Paiste catalog]]<br />
[[File:Jack dark ride apr 1978x.jpg|thumb|right|350px|April '78 interview with Jack De Johnette]]<br />
'''History Video:''' [https://youtu.be/dFc3IC9Rz4Q?si=_ZbbKNlv9d7PD16L The history of the Paiste 602 and Sound creation dark ride]<br><br />
'''Development:''' The dark ride was Fredy Studer's brainchild.<br>From a 2022 interview: <i>"I told Robert since the first half of the seventies that Paiste needs a darker sound which would hopefully turn on Jazz drummers. So far they were not attracted to Paiste because the sound was too bright and too clean for them. To be honest, I came up with the idea for the 22" Dark ride because I wanted to have a cymbal like that for myself!<br />
I bought many different records for Robert and the two of us were spending nights (including beer and good red wine) listening to many Jazz players and their cymbal sound (like Tony Williams, Steve Gadd, Al Foster, who became a Paiste endorser later on, Elvin Jones and many more). This helped Robert to understand what sound I was talking about."</i><br><br />
[[Paiste Jack De Johnette|Jack De Johnette]] is also credited with early development or as a "beta tester". <br><br />
<br />
'''European and US Versions:''' There are the Rogers U.S. distributed Dark rides which all come from 1976 and 1977 based on serial numbers, the differences to the European versions are the lack the words "Formula 602" at the bottom of the embossed stamp and ink stamp, but other than that, the hammering, lathing and ink look like the European 602 Dark Rides. The U.S. distributed Dark Rides correlate with Rogers taking over Paiste distribution in the USA. The Rogers price list and catalog from that period shows that Rogers placed this 602 model in among their 2002 catalog offerings and did not mention the Formula 602 series by name (see below). At this point Rogers only distributed and sold 2002's, 602's were available by 1979 but special order only. This would explain why the words Formula 602 were left off the embossed stamp and the ink.<br> <br />
Paiste actually used the archaic super formula 602 "plain stamp" on the Rogers U.S. distributed Dark rides (see below).<br> <br />
<br />
'''Sound Creation:''' In 1978 the [[Paiste_Sound_Creation#Sound_Creation|Sound Creation]] series appears and the [[Paiste_Dark_Ride|Dark Ride]] is found in that series from then on. There is one 602 Dark Ride from 1979 which is consistent with production tapering off rapidly at that time. Also, there is one 1981 Dark Ride cymbal with serial PAISTE 602 142560 (see below), it has the 602 Dark Ride hammering characteristics but no embossed stamp at all, most likely a leftover that was stamped with a serial in mid '81 and sent to a distributor!<br><br />
<br />
'''Stamps:''' Notice below that there are two distinct embossed stamps:<br> <br />
From the data we have gathered, the European 602 Dark Ride uses the outline version of the full stamp (black label era stamp).<br> <br />
The Rogers U.S distributed 602 Dark Ride (formerly known as "transitional") uses a version which has TRADE underneath the E of Paiste (archaic super formula 602 "plain stamp" from '57 to about '62).<br> <br />
*On the European Dark Ride, most have ink saying Paiste Formula 602 above the bell.<br> <br />
*On the Rogers version, the "Paiste" name ink is there, but the Formula 602 is left off.<br><br />
We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing!<br><br><br />
<br />
'''European 602 Dark Ride''' with the 1970's "outline stamp" and full ink:<br />
<gallery><br />
File:76 catalog dark ride.jpg|1976 European catalog<br />
File:704709 EU dark.jpg|1977 European distributed dark ride emboss and serial<br />
File:Cfkj12wbpsz3wdyapjlt.jpg| outline stamp/emboss but no "formula 602" ink<br />
File:22 dark 4.jpg| 602 Dark Ride "outline stamp"<br />
File:22 dark 3.jpg| 602 Dark Ride ink stamp<br />
File:22 dark 2.jpg| 602 Dark Ride with "outline stamp"<br />
File:22 dark 5.jpg| 602 Dark Ride top<br />
File:349227047 214684508023232 989629301524005366 n.jpg|collection of dark rides, note: 1975 model in upper left, bottom 2 right cymbals are sound creation versions<br />
</gallery><br />
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=== Rogers "US" 602 Dark Ride === <br />
With the "plain stamp" and without the 602 name ink stamp:<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste-Rogers-1977-Prices2.png|1977 Rogers Catalog: Dark Ride (Part No 52-1822) placed among the 2002s<br />
File:Paiste-602-dark-ride-descr-1976.JPG|German text<br />
File:Super_formula_plain_stamp.jpg|The super formula 602 "plain stamp" (above) is identical to the stamp used on the Rogers distributed 602 dark rides!<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-stamp.jpg|Rogers 602 Dark Ride "plain stamp" emboss<br />
File:747073 US dark.jpg|1977 US/Rogers dark ride emboss and serial<br />
File:747062 US dark.jpg|1977 US/Rogers dark ride emboss and serial<br />
File:609096 US dark.jpg|1976 US/Rogers dark ride emboss and serial<br />
File:Trans 602 22 dark ride stamps.jpg|close up of emboss and Paiste ink stamp<br />
File:602 22 dark ride.jpg|Rogers dark ride, note lack of "Formula 602" below the Paiste ink stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-top.jpg|Rogers 602 Dark Ride<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
=== 1975 (MKI version) European 602 dark ride ===<br />
Below is a gallery of 1975 European dark rides, you will notice the hammering is very different from the late '75 and early '76 and later models. From what we have observed, Paiste was still using the same size tooling (hammerhead) as they did for the standard 602's, the difference is in the intensity (depth) and in the amount of hammering (more dense). Once you get into late '75 and early '76 (based on serial numbers), you see a substantial change with larger hammer marks midpoint and towards the edge of the cymbal and small hammer marks around the bell.<br><br />
From picture evidence, we believe this new "two stage" hammering process carried on through to the Sound creation series in 1978 and formed the basic hammering format for a substantial portion of cymbals in that series!<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:22-3266-stamp.jpg|So far all of the '75 dark rides we have seen have the "outline stamp"<br />
File:75 comparison.jpg|Side by side comparison to show the difference in hammering between a '75 dark ride and a 76 version<br />
File:22-3194-topb.jpg<br />
File:22-3194-bot.jpg<br />
File:1975 paco.jpg<br />
File:22-3194-top2b.jpg<br />
22-3266-top.jpg<br />
File:22-3266-bot.jpg<br />
File:139583624 10221881043967449 8981988340700695436 n.jpg<br />
File:22-3061-top.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
=== 602 dark ride oddities ===<br />
Factory refinished European 1975 Dark ride: notice the black ink instead of standard 602 blue ink (stamped over the outline emboss/stamp), this was common for cymbals refinished in the 90's because Paiste was no longer using blue ink on any of it's labels.<br />
<gallery> <br />
File:Restamped 602 dark ride.jpg<br />
File:1975 restamped 602 dark ride 2.jpg<br />
File:1975 restamped 602 dark ride 3.jpg<br />
File:1975 restamped 602 dark ride 5.jpg<br />
File:1975 restamped 602 dark ride 4.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
602 dark ride with no emboss/602 stamp, it also has a 1981 602 serial number from the "blue label" era, most likely it sat for four years and then was stamped with a serial when it left the factory in 1981!<br />
<gallery> <br />
File:No stmp 1981 dark rd.jpg<br />
File:1981 602 dark ride.jpg<br />
File:1981 602 dark serial.jpg<br />
File:347237082 785516553179605 644995563208577719 n.jpg<br />
File:347605753 1212924576052001 1827317204414924148 n.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
=== 602 Dark ride gallery ===<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1976 paco.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:1977 paco.jpg|1977 serial number<br />
File:1978 paco.jpg|602 from very early 1978 before they switched to Sound Creations: serial 801772<br />
File:1978 paco SC.jpg|1978 Sound Creation version, serial 840453, compare it to the 602 version on the left<br />
File:22-hip-top.jpg|1977 serial number<br />
File:22-hip-top2.jpg|1977 serial number<br />
File:22-3188-top3.jpeg|1976 serial number<br />
File:22-3243-top.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:22-3258-top.jpg|?<br />
File:22-3284-top.jpg| 1977 serial number<br />
<br />
File:22-3284-top2.jpg|1977 serial number<br />
File:22-3284-bot.jpg|1977 serial number<br />
File:22-3300-ink.jpg| 1976 serial number<br />
File:22-3300-model.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:22-3300-top.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:22-3300-bot.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:22-sn634064-model-ink.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:22-hip-stamp2.jpg|1977 serial number<br />
File:22-sn634064-top.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
File:22-sn634064-bot.jpg|1976 serial number<br />
</gallery><br />
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--------<br />
Special thanks to: Erik Van Huyssteen, Doug Caban, Sean Walton, Paco Drummer, Daron Nelson<br />
<br />
Back to [[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste|Paiste Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste&diff=68834Paiste2025-04-29T14:19:03Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>[[File:Full lineup.jpg|1700px|]]<br><br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
<big><big>'''NOTE this is a resurrection of the lost Paiste-Only wiki (many updates are currently ongoing)'''</big></big><br> <br />
<br>The wiki pages have been formatted for 1920 x 1080 resolution, for best viewing experience please use this resolution on your computer.<br> <br />
== Cymbals & Gongs ==<br />
<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Series]]''': Browse cymbals by series<br><br />
* ''' [[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Type Portal]]''': Browse cymbals by type<br><br />
* ''' [[Paiste Gongs]]''': Detailed info on Paiste gongs<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Featured Artists|Paiste Artists]]''': Notable Artists playing Paistes<br><br />
* ''' [[Paiste Expansions & Phase Outs]]''': The chronological history of each cymbal model<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Rarities, Oddballs, and Unique Items]]''': A photo gallery<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Stencil Cymbals]]''' Browse cymbals made for other companies<br />
[[File:Banner.jpg|right|320px|]]<br />
== Resources ==<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Serial Numbers]]''': How to determine the date of manufacture for Paiste cymbals, German serial numbers, dating preserial Paistes, etc.<br />
* ''' [[Identify Your Paistes]]''': Notes on identifying alloys, Alloy technical detail, Labeling formats, Factory refinishing, European, English & Japanese distributors<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Weight Table]]''': Compiled by the wiki and forum members <br />
* ''' [[Paiste Patents]]''': Timeline of Paiste Patents<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Ink Stamps]]''': Database of Ink Stamps for All Paiste Series<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride]]''': Arguably Paiste's most collectable and sought after cymbal, the "albino unicorn"; mysteries solved here!<br />
* ''' [[Paiste's cymbal production process versus the competition]]''': Myths, misconceptions, misinformation and plain old bamboozlery! What sets Paiste apart from other manufactures!<br />
* '''[[Paiste Drums]]''': A section devoted to Paiste drums.<br />
* ''' [[Cymbal care]]''': How to care for, clean, and use your Paiste products<br />
* ''' [[Wiki cymbal cleaning supplemental]]''': My journey to find the perfect cymbal cleaner<br />
== History ==<br />
* ''' [[Paiste general history and cymbal production timeline: 1901 - 1986]]''': A subjective and objective compassionate history lesson of the company and its products<br />
* ''' [[Paiste cymbal line history diagram: 1930 - present day]]''': A summary and guide to virtually every cymbal line Paiste has produced from the "10,000 foot level"!<br />
* ''' [[Ludwig & Paiste: A marriage made in heaven... until it wasn't! (1953- 1972*)]]''': The history behind the partnership and one of the greatest growth periods for Paiste<br />
* ''' [[A conversation with Fredy Studer]]''': The creator of the 602 dark ride, Sound creations, 2002's, Masters, Modern essential 602's and signing countless drummers!<br />
* ''' [[The Keeper of the Sound]]''': A 2006 Interview with Robert Paiste by Fritz Steger (Robert had not been formally interviewed since 1972!)<br />
== Advertisment ==<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Advertising]]''': Paiste catalogs, advertisements(ads), brochures, flyers, price lists, and posters<br />
* ''' [[Paiste Merchandise]]''': Official Paiste Merchandise<br />
== Catalogs ==<br />
* ''' [[1963 Paiste catalog]]''': 1963 (estimated) catalog scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
* ''' [[1965 Paiste catalog]]''': 1965 (estimated) "The story of Paiste" scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
* ''' [[1967 Paiste catalog]]''': 1967 (estimated) catalog scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
* ''' [[1974 Paiste catalog]]''': 1974 catalog scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
* ''' [[1976 Paiste catalog]]''': 1976 catalog scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
* ''' [[1977 Paiste catalog]]''': 1977 catalog scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
* ''' [[1979 Paiste catalog]]''': 1979 catalog scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
* ''' [[1985 Paiste catalog]]''': 1985 catalog scanned and posted as a picture gallery<br><br />
== Articles ==<br />
'''Modern Drummer'''<br />
* '''[[1978 "MD special report"]]''': October 1978 Modern drummer's first article on Paiste cymbals<br><br />
* '''[[Inside Paiste]]''': 1985: A history and an interview with Robert and Toomas Paiste<br><br />
* '''[[Visit to the Paiste factory]]''': 1985: An in depth look at Paiste's factory and production process for 1985 models<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste drummer service]]''': 1985: A detailed description of the history and how the Paiste drummer service works<br><br />
* '''[[1989 "MD review, Signatures"]]''': December 1989 Modern drummer review of the new Signature series<br><br />
== Links ==<br />
* '''[[Cymbal Wiki Statistics]]''': Not currently working<br />
*[http://www.paiste.com/ The official Paiste web site]<br />
* [http://black.net.nz/paiste.html Paiste 602 and Sound Creation older price research] <<< WARNING: out of date and slowly being updated in the wiki itself<br />
''' Youtube '''<br />
*[https://youtu.be/2HD3hMQdobY Paiste Collector's Guide # 1] <br />
*[https://youtu.be/V_XlnSM5AZ0 Paiste Collector's Guide # 2]<br />
*[https://youtu.be/4yJ0DTdnm8Y History of Paiste (Part 1)]<br />
*[https://youtu.be/Z3dTs-GOFhI History of Paiste (Part 2)]<br />
*[https://www.youtube.com/@thetype85/featured Vintage Paiste videos]<br />
'''Facebook '''<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/paistecompany Paiste Cymbals]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/185747971524740 Paiste Cymbals New and Vintage]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/528704867196724 Paiste vintage cymbals]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/1625307324174814 Paiste Wiki Fans of the World]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/1708983262518911 Paiste Sound Creation & SC ND & FO 602]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/57292836702/ Paiste 2002]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/575719383757754 Paiste Giant Beats, Dixies, 4o4s, Stambuls, Ludwig Standards]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/1676616175891815/ Paiste 505]<br />
* [https://www.facebook.com/groups/131081820851051 Paiste 3000 Cymbals and Hihats]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Ink_Stamps&diff=67780Paiste Ink Stamps2025-04-14T04:02:39Z<p>Type85: </p>
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While Paiste had been stamping cymbals with model and type designators ''(Thin Crash, Medium Ride, Heavy Hi-Hat, etc.)'' in red or black ink for decades, in 1972 (blabk label era) the company introduced series stamps in black ink, beginning with the Formula 602, Stambul65, Stambul, Dixie, Giant Beat, 2002, and Sound Creation series. <br> <br />
In 1981, color-specific labeling (colored label era) for a cymbal series was introduced: Formula 602 and 2000 - <span style="color: blue">Blue</span>, 2002 and 3000 - <span style="color: red">Red</span>, 505/1000 - <span style="color: green">Green</span>, among others.<br />
<br />
This page is intended to be a gallery and database of stamps from all series that Paiste has released over the years. Both top stamps (indicating series, model, size, and typeface), and bottom Paiste stamps will be documented here. It is a work in progress.<br />
<br />
==[[Paiste 1000|1000/1000 RUDE]]==<br />
'''Years: 1986 - 1992'''<br />
<br />
'''Stamp Color: <span style="color: green">Green</span>'''<br />
<br />
1000 and 1000 RUDE cymbals were introduced in 1986 as a successor to the lower end 404 series. All 1000 and 1000 RUDE cymbals are stamped in <span style="color: green">green</span>. The series stamp consists of the pAisTe logo, above the 1000 logo in the same typeface Paiste generally uses for their CuSn8 bronze lines, including the 1000, 2000, 3000, 900, and 2002 series.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1000_logo.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
1000 RUDE models are stamped with the RUDE stencil logo stamp to the left of the bell.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1000 RUDE 20 Ride Crash 1.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
'''Model and Size Stamps'''<br />
<br />
Model and size stamps are in the same Serif typeface as the 2000, 3000, 2002, and 900 series.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1000 18 Crash 3.jpg<br />
File:1000 22 Power Ride 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
Early 1000s used a Helvetica typeface for the model and size stamps, this was also seen on West German-made 2002s.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1000 13 Heavy Hi Hat 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
1000 RUDEs, like the standalone RUDE series, feature the stencil stamp for the model.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1000 RUDE 22 Ride Crash 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
'''Bottom Stamps'''<br />
<br />
The bottom pAisTe stamps were updated for 1986, and added the words ''Made in West Germany'' or ''Made in Switzerland'', depending on where the cymbal was made.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1000 RUDE Switzerland Logo.jpg<br />
File:1000 RUDE Germany logo.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
'''Other'''<br />
<br />
China Type cymbals in the 1000, 2000, and 3000 series feature the model and size stamps on both sides, and are not stamped with the pAiSTe logo on the "bottom" side. <br />
<gallery><br />
File:1000 RUDE 16 China 1.png<br />
File:1000 RUDE 16 China 2.png<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==[[Paiste 2000|2000/2000 Colorsound/2000 Sound Reflections]]==<br />
'''Years: 1986 - 1994 (Colorsound), 1995 (Traditional, and Sound Reflections)'''<br />
<br />
'''Stamp Color: <span style="color: blue">Blue</span> (2000, and Sound Reflections), White (Colorsound)'''<br />
<br />
The 2000 Series, along with the Colorsound, and Sound Reflections models were introduced in 1986 as a mid-range series to replace the 505 family. Cymbals in the 2000 series were offered in Traditional, Reflector, and Colorsound finishes (Black, Red and Teal). Similar to the 1000 series, the series stamp consists of the pAisTe logo, above the 2000 logo in the same typeface Paiste generally uses for their CuSn8 bronze lines, including the 1000, 2000, 3000, 900, and 2002 series. This stamp is '''<span style="color: blue">Blue</span>''' on Traditional and Sound Reflections models, and white on Colorsound finish.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:2000 logo.jpg<br />
<br />
</gallery><br />
==2002/2002 Black Label/2002 Big Beat==<br />
==3000/3000 Reflector/3000 RUDE==<br />
==900 Series/Colorsound 900==<br />
==Alpha/Black Alpha==<br />
==Bottom Stamps==<br />
==Colorsound 5==<br />
==Dimensions/Dimensions Reflector==<br />
==Exotic Percussion==<br />
==Formula 602==<br />
==Formula 602 Modern Essentials==<br />
==Giant Beat==<br />
==Innovations==<br />
==Masters/Twenty Masters Collection==<br />
==Noise Works==<br />
==RUDE/2002 RUDE==<br />
==[[Paiste Signature|Signature]]==<br />
'''Years: 1989 - Present'''<br />
<br />
'''Stamp Color: Black, White''' ([[Paiste Blue Bell Ride|Blue Bell Ride]], [[Paiste Dark Metal Ride|Dark Metal Ride]], [[Paiste Signature 22" Dry Heavy Ride "Monad"|Dry Heavy Ride "Monad"]], [[Paiste Duo Ride|Duo Ride]])<br />
<br />
The Signature series was introduced in 1989 after several years of development, and was the first series made from Paiste's patented Signature alloy. The series stamp on the top of Signature cymbals consists of the Paiste Signature wordmark based on Robert Paiste's signature. This is in black ink except for those models mentioned above with white ink.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Signature logo.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
'''Model and Size Stamps'''<br />
<br />
The model and size stamps are in Papyrus typeface.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Signature 10 Splash 3.jpg<br />
File:Signature 14 Medium Hi Hat 3.jpg<br />
File:Signature 18 Power Crash 2.jpg<br />
File:Signature 21 Dark Full Ride 2.jpg<br />
File:Signature 22 Thin China 3.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
'''Bottom Stamps'''<br />
<br />
Some of the very earliest Signature cymbals released in 1989 will have ''Patent Pending'' stamped on the underside of the bell; Paiste had applied for patents relating to the formula of the Signature bronze but those patents had not yet been granted. As patents were issued in various countries, their numbers were stamped on the underside of the bell.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste-22-flat-pending.jpg|Patent Pending on a 1989 22" Flatride<br />
</gallery><br />
The underside was stamped with the typical bold pAisTe logo from 1989 to 2003 when the logo was updated to the current thin logo. The stamp is black, except for the models mentioned above that use a white stamp. From 1989 to around 1998, Signature cymbals were stamped with a listing of all models available in that type's range; the stamp reads ''Paiste China/Crash/Hi-Hat/Ride program''. On Hi-Hats, this was only stamped on the underside of the top cymbal. After the model listing stamp was discontinued in 1998, the cymbals reverted to the standard pAisTe logo accompanied by ''Made in Switzerland'' until the new logo was introduced in 2003.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste crash program.jpg|Paiste Crash Program on an 18" Full Crash<br />
File:Signature 12 Heavy Hi Hat 3.jpg|Paiste Hi-Hat Program on the top cymbal of a 12" Heavy Hi-Hat pair.<br />
File:Paiste ride program.jpeg|Paiste Ride Program on a 22" Dry Heavy Ride<br />
File:Signature 22 Power Ride 2.jpg|Intermediate stamp, without model listing 1998- 2003.<br />
File:Paiste Signature 22 Blue Bell Ride 2.jpg|2003 - present logo in White on a 22" Blue Bell Ride<br />
</gallery><br />
'''Special Stamps'''<br />
<br />
The artist inspired models feature special stamps representing the artist that collaborated with Paiste on them. The stamps are ''Monad'' and three metaphysical symbols on the [[Paiste Signature 22" Dry Heavy Ride "Monad"|22" Dry Heavy Ride "Monad"]] by [[Paiste Danny Carey|Danny Carey]], ''The Rhythmatist'' on the [[Paiste Signature 12" Combo Crisp Hi-Hat|12" Combo Crisp Hi-Hat]] in black ink, and [[Paiste Signature 22" Blue Bell Ride|22" Blue Bell Ride]] in white by [[Paiste Stewart Copeland|Stewart Copeland]], and ''Vir2osity'' on the [[Paiste Signature 20" Duo Ride|20" Duo Ride]] by [[Paiste Carl Palmer|Carl Palmer]].<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Monad logo 1.jpg| Monad<br />
File:Monad logo 2.png| Monad<br />
File:Monad logo 3.png| Monad<br />
File:Paiste Signature 22 Blue Bell Ride 3.jpg|The Rhythmatist<br />
File:Signature 20 Duo Ride 2.jpg|Vir2osity<br />
</gallery><br />
==[[Paiste New Signature|Signature Dark Energy (New Signature)]]==<br />
'''Years: 2004 - Present'''<br />
<br />
'''Stamp Color: Black'''<br />
<br />
The Signature series was introduced in 2004, and is the fourth series made exclusively with Paiste's patented Signature alloy. Similar to the Signature series, the series stamp on the top of Signature Dark Energy cymbals consists of a large format version of the Paiste Signature wordmark based on Robert Paiste's signature in black ink.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Dark Energy 19 Crash 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
'''Model and Size Stamps'''<br />
<br />
The model and size stamps are again in Papyrus typeface. Mark I/II, depending on the model, is also stamped below the model/size.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Dark Energy 20 Mark I Ride 2.jpg<br />
File:Dark Energy MK II Ride 2.jpg<br />
File:P-NewSig-21-dark-dry-serial.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
'''Bottom Stamps'''<br />
<br />
The bottom is stamped with the standard pAisTe ink introduced in 2003.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Dark Energy 20 Mark I Ride 4.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==Signature Precision==<br />
==Signature Reflector==<br />
==Signature Traditionals==<br />
==Sound Creation/Sound Creation New Dimension==<br />
==[[Paiste Sound Formula|Sound Formula/Sound Formula Reflector]]==<br />
'''Years: 1990 - 1999 (Sound Formula), 1992 - 1996 (Sound Formula Reflector)'''<br><br />
'''Stamp Color: Black'''<br />
<br />
The Sound Formula series was introduced in 1990 and was the second series made from Paiste's patented Signature alloy. Early Sound Formulas produced from 1990 to 1993 were made in the German factory, and had a more traditional lathing pattern compared to the Signature style ribbon lathing on the later Swiss made models. The original Sound Formula series stamp was a variation on the Sound Creation "Sun" logo with ''Sound Formula'' in place of Sound Creation and the Paiste signature in the center. Reflector-finish models, made in the Swiss facility, were introduced in 1992.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Sound formula sun logo.png|Sound Formula "Sun" Logo, 1990 - 1993, also used on Reflector models until 1996.<br />
</gallery><br />
The "Sun" logo was also stamped on Reflector models until they were discontinued in 1996. When production of the traditional finish Sound Formulas moved to the Swiss facility in 1994, a new series logo was introduced. Due to the cobbled together appearance of the wording, this stamp is commonly referred to as the "Frankenstein" logo. Like their predecessors, these cymbals were intended for professional drummers and the words ''Professional Standard'' accompany the new stamp in the upper right. New model and size stamps with a small pAisTe stamp above them were also added. Sound Formulas were produced until the series was discontinued in 1999 to make room for the new [[Paiste Dimensions|Dimensions]] line.<br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Sound formula frankenstein logo.png|Later Logo a.k.a. "Frankenstein", 1994 - 1999<br />
</gallery><br />
'''Model Designator and Size Stamps'''<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Sound Formula 16 Full Crash 4.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
German-made Sound Formulas used a more traditional typeface for the model and size stamp.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Sound Formula 14 Medium Heavy Hi Hat 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
Swiss-made Sound Formulas used a typeface similar to the Papyrus one used on the Signatures. A small black pAisTe logo also accompanies the model and size stamps.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Bottom Stamps'''<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Original sf bottom paiste logo.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
German-made Sound Formulas were stamped with the 1980s era wide spaced pAisTe stamp in black ink. Like the Signature series, patents for the Signature bronze were stamped on the underside of the bell. Additionally, ''Made in Germany'' is stamped on the right of the patent information.<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Sound Formula 18 Power Crash 3.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
With move of production to Switzerland, the bold standard spaced pAisTe stamp was applied, similar to the Signature series. The words ''Made in Switzerland'' were also added.<br><br />
==Twenty/Twenty Custom Collection==<br />
==Visions==</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Dimensions_22%22_Medium_Ride&diff=65893Paiste Dimensions 22" Medium Ride2025-03-26T04:02:02Z<p>Type85: </p>
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[[File:22 med ride dim.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Dimensions 22 Medium Ride 2.jpeg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Dimensions 22 Medium Ride 3.jpeg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Group:''' [[Paiste Cymbal Type#Rides|Rides]]<br><br />
'''Type:''' [[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]]<br><br />
'''Size:''' 22 Inch<br><br />
'''Series:''' [[Paiste Dimensions#Dimensions|Dimensions]]<br><br />
'''Weight:''' 3162g (2000 Serial Number), 3204g (2000 Serial Number), 3230g (2000 Serial Number), 3260g, 3288g<br><br />
'''Median Weight:''' 3230g (n=5)<br><br />
'''Years of production:''' [[Paiste 1999 Expansion#Dimensions|1999]] - 2005<br><br />
'''Sound file:''' [https://youtu.be/OJ7LSGDP3B4?si=BuGehFG-g5OM_qlq 22" medium ride]<br><br />
'''Paiste's Description:''' [[Paiste Medium Ride#Dimensions|<<< - >>>]]<br><br />
'''Review:''' "The rides I played possessed great definition and control. Playing aggressive ride patterns produced a full yet contained spread. The sound was very clear and cutting, owing to the 2002 alloy. Due to the weight of the cymbals, stick response was satisfying, making it easy to play bounce strokes. The bell sounds were clear and distinct, mostly due to the shaping of the bell. (The bell area is clearly defined, meaning that the shoulder doesn't gradually taper into it.) The bell of each cymbal responded well, while producing very little sound from the rest of the cymbal. Brushwork on all the rides was filled with high overtones, and sounded very clean. <br><br />
<br />
The 18" possessed a light, high-pitched voice. It had great stick response and definition. Quick ride patterns came through with articulation and a controlled undercurrent. This was my favorite ride because of the nature of its voice and the way that that voice sang above the others like rainfall. It was not overpowering by any means, but had a clarity arid lightness that made it a pleasant experience. I also enjoyed the fact that the 18" was a true ride, not a crash-ride, as 18" cymbals often are. Striking it with a glancing (or "crashing") blow produced a response like that of the other rides.<br><br />
<br />
The 20" was very easy to play, with pleasing, articulate response. It had a medium-range voice that fit between the other two sizes and would be great for general-purpose playing. The 22" produced a smoky undercurrent beneath a clear voice, and the spread built but did not overpower."<br><br />
<br />
Review written by Chap Ostrander ("Paiste Dimensions Cymbals", Modern Drummer, April 2000, p.48)<br> <br />
<br />
'''Artist/song where it can be heard:''' [[Paiste Abe Laboriel Jr#Abe Laboriel Jr|Abe Laboriel Jr]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602_24%22_Thin&diff=64089Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin2025-03-05T16:59:45Z<p>Type85: </p>
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[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 3.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 1.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 4.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Formula 602 24 Thin 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Group:''' [[Paiste Cymbal Type#Crashes|Thin]]<br><br />
'''Type:''' [[Paiste Thin|Thin]]<br><br />
'''Size:''' 24 Inch<br><br />
'''Series:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]]<br><br />
'''Weight:''' 3064g (Pre-Serial), 3138g, 3150g, 3184g (1973 Serial Number), 3250g (1974 serial)<br><br />
'''Median Weight:''' 3144g (n=4)<br><br />
'''Years of production:''' 1970 - (last listed in 1977 catalog)<br><br />
'''Sound file:''' <br><br />
'''Paiste's Description:''' [[Paiste Thin#Formula 602|<<< - >>>]]<br><br />
'''Review:''' <br><br />
Review written by <br><br />
'''Artist/song where it can be heard:''' unknown</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Ludwig&diff=64070Paiste Ludwig2025-03-04T22:37:10Z<p>Type85: </p>
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==Ludwig Paiste==<br />
[[File:Logo B.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Logo A]]<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:Logo C.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Logo B]]<br />
[[File:Logo D1.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Logo C1]]<br />
[[File:Logo D2.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Logo C2]]<br />
[[File:Logo D3.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Logo C3]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1956<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' early 1965 (last listed in Ludwig '64 catalog, replaced by the "Ludwig Standard").<br><br />
'''Background:''' <br />
Robert Paiste recalled during a 2006 interview that the Ludwig family sent "care packages" to the Paiste family after W.W. II, this indicates that Bill Ludwig Sr. possibly had a relationship with Michail Paiste before the war. Bill Ludwig Sr. took a trip to Nenderoth, Germany to visit his childhood home around 1955/56, afterwards he attended the Frankfurt music fair where met Michael M. Paiste, the relationship soon developed into orders for 20,000 cymbals per year!<br><br />
From the 1957 catalog, a less expensive PAISTE series is offered in addition to the higher-quality Zildjians, under the name "Ludwig". Ludwig "3 stars" (Robert Paiste has stated that that the 3-star was a rebranded NS12 Stambul sold to Ludwig for North American distribution).<br> <br />
They are first made in Germany (with the addition of "CHICAGO" on the stamp), then during 1957 and later in Switzerland, all were made of Nickel Silver alloy NS12.<br> <br />
There is proof of several different embossed logo variations: the 3-star cymbals without a country of origin were German-made (the German factory was the original post WWII production facility), we do know that any of the Ludwig 3 stars with the location name of "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" were made from 1957 and later.<br> <br />
One should compare the old Ludwig logos that are shown through their history, as this will help to show similar dating in these earlier days.<br><br />
We have found several indicator features to help identify general date ranges:<br><br />
<br />
'''Indicator #1:''' Font format and font style: There are two general formats being used (a script line-form or a hollow block-form). In addition, most of the lettering is shown (detached or separate letters), but one version has an cursive style or attached letters. See the Logo pictures to the right for a visual reference.<br><br />
<br />
'''Indicator #2:''' Star Tip Count & Locations: Although there is only one example of tip count variance found so far, we have noticed the locations and angles of the stars have slightly changed over these years. It's unknown if this really matters towards dating, but it may give a clue. Most Ludwig 3 Stars have a 5-tips (points or ends), but there is one variant that has 4-tips.<br><br />
<br />
'''Indicator #3:''' Font Style: There are two styles being used (with flared letter tips/ends) and (non-flared letter tips). You can see the "flared" tip lettering in the "u", "d", "w" and "i" of the Ludwig name.<br><br />
<br />
'''Indicator #4:''' Size and shape of the bell: Ludwig cymbals followed the same timeline changes as the Stambul, therefore right before the switch to the "Standard" name (late '64, early '65) the size and shape of the bell changed substantially, see gallery below.<br><br />
<br />
'''The following is a guesstimate approach to a general timeline of the 3 Star use:'''<br><br />
'''LOGO (A):''' This is likely the 1st. version used, as it is still in narrow script line-form, but changes to a 'cursive' lettering style and it includes three stars around the top and ends of the "Ludwig" name. Just under this, included the signature "Paiste" name. Most of these cymbals show two locations: "Germany" over "Chicago". At the time, Ludwig's distribution (based in Chicago) was for the American market.<br><br />
*Note: This logo used 4 pointed stars, which is the only one found in these variants. It's possible, like the original Super F602's, they were changing logos until they locked into a final product release.<br><br />
<br />
'''LOGO (B):''' We believe this might have been used at the Swiss factory from 1957 and later. It uses a script line-form that is wider than the original script used in "Ludwig". The lettering is detached and has no flared tips. The usual three stars are in place around the "Ludwig" name, which is over the "Paiste" signature. Under this is typically the production location name.<br><br />
<br />
'''LOGO (C):''' This is likely the last version of logo stamps used. We believe Paiste transitioned the font types from a script line-form over to a 'hollow' letter-form. They also used detached lettering with 'flared' tips, three stars around the "Ludwig" name, signature "Paiste" under "Ludwig", and the location name varied.<br />
*Note: Being that this occurred in 1957 or after, cymbals had one of the following designations for location located under the "Paiste" signature:<br><br />
C1. "Germany" (with or without "Chicago" under it)<br> <br />
C2. "Swiss Made"--1957 to 1964<br><br />
C3. No location listed at all<br><br />
<br />
From 1957 and after, these sizes were believed to be offered: Thin, Medium, Heavy 10" through 22" Designated as Band, Ride or Hi Hat.<br> <br />
It should be noted that Ludwig ordered a mass of cymbals shipped to their Chicago warehouse and from there, they mix and matched destined pairs of cymbals.<br><br />
Again, until we find the missing documents to help better identify some of these characteristics, we can only surmise.<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver]]<br><br />
<br />
'''Quality:''' Entry level <br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Student, High school Band, marching and orchestra<br><br />
<br />
==== Thin ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[10"]] [[11"]] [[12"]] [[13"]] [[14"]] [[15"]] [[16"]] [[17"]] [[18"]] [[19"]] [[20"]] [[21"]] [[22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Medium ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[10"]] [[11"]] [[12"]] [[13"]] [[14"]] [[15"]] [[16"]] [[17"]] [[18"]] [[19"]] [[20"]] [[21"]] [[22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Heavy ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[10"]] [[11"]] [[12"]] [[13"]] [[14"]] [[15"]] [[16"]] [[17"]] [[18"]] [[19"]] [[20"]] [[21"]] [[22"]]<br><br />
<br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1956 July Ludwig cymbal Down Beat ad.JPG|July 1956 Down Beat magazine ad<br />
File:Ludwig 57 catalog.jpg|Paiste's 1st. appearance in a Ludwig catalog: 1957!<br />
File:1960 ludwig catalog.jpg|1960 Ludwig catalog<br />
File:1964 ludwig catalog.jpg|1964 Ludwig catalog<br />
File:16 ludwig paiste.jpg|16" Ludwig 3-star <br />
File:18 ludwig paiste.jpg|18" Ludwig 3-star<br />
File:Ludwig 3 Star 10 Jazz Thin 1.jpg|10" Jazz Thin<br />
File:Ludwig 3 Star 10 Jazz Thin 2.jpg|10" Jazz Thin<br />
</gallery><br />
'''Bell size transition:'''<br />
<gallery><br />
File:18 3 star big bell 2.jpg|big bell<br />
File:18 3 star big bell.jpg|big bell<br />
File:Cvbvd3wfneu0jrp7jblp.jpg|small bell<br />
File:18 3 star small bell.jpg|small bell<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
==Ludwig Standard==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:Ludwig standard.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]<br />
[[File:Ludwig stan 16 3.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Ludwig standard stamp]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1965 second quarter<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' about 1972, but leftovers listed in catalogs until '75<br><br />
'''Background:''' A joint venture by Ludwig and Paiste, the lower midline Ludwig Standards first appear in the 1967 Ludwig catalog, the cymbals were originally made of the NS12 alloy in both the German and Swiss factories before getting an upgrade to B8 around 1971. Well-preserved Ludwig Standards will have a red ink type stamp at the 3 o'clock position and later period (post '71) B8 cymbals also have a black ink Paiste logo above the bell. It is now known that the Ludwig 3-Stars are actually the first generation of Ludwig "Standards", both are rebranded Stambuls. Ludwig didn't actually start using the name "Ludwig Standard" in its materials until 1965 and this could be when they started embossing the cymbals with this new name/logo.<br><br />
We have been told by those at or close to Paiste that they stopped making cymbals for Ludwig in the early 70's ('71 or '72) after Ludwig cancelled thier contract without notice, the Ludwig Standards last appearance comes in the 1975 Ludwig catalog in limited size options as these cymbals are most assuredly leftover stock.<br> <br />
We have examples of no serial # B8 Ludwig Standards that were stamped with post '71 ink stamping as Stambuls and sold off after the deal with Ludwig collapsed!<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver NS12]] - [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|"B8" CuSn8 (after about 1971)]]<br><br />
<br />
'''Quality:''' Entry level<br><br />
<br />
'''Applications:''' Student, High school Band, marching and orchestra<br><br />
<br />
==== Thin ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 10" Thin|10"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 11" Thin|11"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 12" Thin|12"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 13" Thin|13"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 14" Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 15" Thin|15"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 16" Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 17" Thin|17"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 19" Thin|19"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 20" Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 21" Thin|21"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 22" Thin|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Medium ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 10" Medium|10"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 11" Medium|11"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 12" Medium|12"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 13" Medium|13"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 14" Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 15" Medium|15"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 17" Medium|17"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 19" Medium|19"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 20" Medium|20"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 21" Medium|21"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 22" Medium|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Heavy ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 10" Heavy|10"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 11" Heavy|11"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 12" Heavy|12"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 13" Heavy|13"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 15" Heavy|15"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 17" Heavy|17"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 19" Heavy|19"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 20" Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 21" Heavy|21"]] [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 22" Heavy|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Medium Ride ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 18" Medium Ride|18"]]<br />
(this is incomplete)<br />
<br />
==== Hi-Hat Thin ==== <br />
(this is incomplete)<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat Thin|Hi-Hat Thin]] - [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 15" Hi-Hat Thin|15"]]<br />
<br />
==== Hi-Hat Medium ==== <br />
(this is incomplete)<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat Medium|Hi-Hat Medium]] - [[Paiste Ludwig Standard 15" Hi-Hat Medium|15"]]<br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:1965 (May) Ludwig Standard Paiste ad.JPG|May 1965 downbeat magazine advert<br />
File:Ludwig 67 3.jpg|1967 Ludwig catalog<br />
File:Ludwig 71 paiste 4.jpg|1971 Ludwig catalog<br />
File:1973 ludwig catalog 1.jpg|1973 Ludwig catalog<br />
File:1975 ludwig catalog.jpg|1975 Ludwig catalog - Last appearance of Paistes in a Ludwig catalog<br />
File:Ludwig standard 22 ride.jpg|NS12 22" Heavy<br />
File:14 ludwig standard B8 hi hats.jpg|14" B8 hi hats<br />
File:PXL 20220323 235837585.jpg|B8 18" thin full ink labeling<br />
File:PXL 20220330 011518661.jpg|B8 Ludwig Standard with Stambul full ink labeling<br />
File:Ludwig 18.jpg|Medium<br />
</gallery><br />
'''1968 N.O.S. Ludwig Standard NS12 cymbal set still in original box.'''<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Ludwig free cymbal.jpg|Original Ludwig ad offering "free" fx sizzle cymbal!<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard 1.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard 12 thin 2.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard 12 thin.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard 15 HH bttm med.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard 15 HH top thin.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard 16 thin.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard 18 med.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard box 2.jpg<br />
File:1968 Ludwig standard box.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
----<br />
Information from: '''[[Paiste Advertising|Ludwig '67/'71 catalog]], Todd Little, Dan Garza<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Ludwig_Standard_22%22_Medium&diff=64068Paiste Ludwig Standard 22" Medium2025-03-04T22:20:01Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div><div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:Lmioxpsqr7mc9hvevgya.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Muxisngi3exwgfqa7utd.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
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[[File:Am94xmyeqwep8k8yvjjd.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Group:''' [[Paiste Cymbal Type#Medium|Medium]]<br> <br />
<br />
'''Type:''' [[Paiste Medium|Medium]] <br><br />
<br />
'''Size:''' 22 Inch<br><br />
<br />
'''Series:''' [[Paiste Ludwig#Ludwig Standard|Ludwig Standard]]<br><br />
<br />
'''Weight:''' 2290g<br><br />
<br />
'''Years of production:''' 1965 - 1974 (estimated)<br><br />
<br />
'''Sound file:''' <br></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:Muxisngi3exwgfqa7utd.jpg&diff=64067File:Muxisngi3exwgfqa7utd.jpg2025-03-04T22:18:00Z<p>Type85: Type85 uploaded a new version of File:Muxisngi3exwgfqa7utd.jpg</p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:Lmioxpsqr7mc9hvevgya.jpg&diff=64066File:Lmioxpsqr7mc9hvevgya.jpg2025-03-04T22:17:47Z<p>Type85: Type85 uploaded a new version of File:Lmioxpsqr7mc9hvevgya.jpg</p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:Am94xmyeqwep8k8yvjjd.jpg&diff=64065File:Am94xmyeqwep8k8yvjjd.jpg2025-03-04T22:16:27Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:Xjuhzxjmtanrpcdtd5dc.jpg&diff=64064File:Xjuhzxjmtanrpcdtd5dc.jpg2025-03-04T22:14:49Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:Muxisngi3exwgfqa7utd.jpg&diff=64057File:Muxisngi3exwgfqa7utd.jpg2025-03-04T22:10:40Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=File:Lmioxpsqr7mc9hvevgya.jpg&diff=64056File:Lmioxpsqr7mc9hvevgya.jpg2025-03-04T22:10:12Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602&diff=64043Paiste Formula 6022025-03-04T19:40:57Z<p>Type85: </p>
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<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Formula 602 ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:602 logo Blue mod.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 logo]]<br />
[[File:Fo 602.png|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:1985 602 catalog.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1962/63ish (based on advertising and catalogs)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1994 (based on serial numbers) then reissued 2011 to present<br><br />
'''Background:''' <br />
One of the world’s most revered and legendary cymbal lines in history, renown and loved for its fine, delicate musical tone.<br><br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957, this (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602" the predecessor to the Formula 602. It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, then we think the "Super Formula" series ran to about 1962. Evidence shows that the Formula 602 series became available in 1962 and was produced until Paiste's B20 supplier Swissmetal ran into financial difficulties and stopped production of blanks in 1994.<br><br />
'''Innovation:''' Second B20 cymbal made by Paiste, the Formula 602 line also saw the introduction of the [[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]], the [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]], [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] with a Turkish bell, [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] and [[Paiste Bell|Bell]]. <br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B20_Alloy|B20 Bronze]], also known as "Bell Bronze".<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manually machine hammered, fine tuned with hand hammering and hand lathed B20 bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Most volume settings • Low to medium loud settings • especially well-suited for recording, live • Jazz, Fusion, Blues, Pop and Rock, Country, Folk, acoustic music.<br><br />
'''Users:''' Professional musicians, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound<br><br />
<b>Late 1960's early 1970's formula 602 users:</b> [https://youtu.be/axEK3x5KIYc?t=30 '''Clive Bunker playing a shiny new set of 602's in 1970 @ the isle of Wight festival.''']<br />
[[File:602 players.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 Players]]<br />
'''Sound:''' <br />
* Musical, transparent, beautiful, rich, colorful, full, clear, expressive sound • The model range features everything from particularly delicate, well balanced and sensitive to expressive, potent and powerful and projective qualities<br />
* Warm, silvery, mellow, cool, light, fine, precise and controlled • Cymbals with clarity and retro vintage character combined with a velvety, sensitive, very responsive feel. (4)<br><br />
* Formula 602 sounds are very precise, very clear and very pure. They are suited to acoustic music, jazz, classical performances and recording. Only a delicate touch is required to produce their distinctive, cool and natural response. (1)<br />
* Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, Formula 602 Classic Sounds cymbals produce a true, pure sound of unique clarity and consistency.<br><br />
=== Formula 602 Models in Production ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Thin|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Paperthin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Paperthin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Paperthin|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Bell|13"]]<br><br />
=== <b>Discontinued Models & Sizes</b> ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Dark Ride|Dark Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Heavy|Flatride Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Heavy|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Medium|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Flatride Thin|24"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Heavy|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Heavy|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Heavy|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Heavy|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Heavy|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Heavy|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Heavy|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Ride|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Ride|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium Ride|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium Ride|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium Ride|21"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Medium|Space Sound Medium]]- [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Medium|18"]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Thin|Space Sound Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Thin|18"]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Thin|20"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Medium|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Medium|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Medium|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Medium|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Medium|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Paperthin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Paperthin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Paperthin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Paperthin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Paperthin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Paperthin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Paperthin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Paperthin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Paperthin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Paperthin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Paperthin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Paperthin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Paperthin|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Thin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Thin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Thin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin|26"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 28" Thin|28"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin Crash|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin Crash|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin Crash|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin Crash|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin Crash|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin Crash|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin Crash|26"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Hi-Hat|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Hi-Hat|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" China Type|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" China Type|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" China Type|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" China Type|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" China Type|24"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 9" Heavy Bell|9"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy Bell|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Splash|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Splash|11"]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Cup Chime|Cup Chime]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Cup Chime|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Cup Chime|11"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Concert|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Concert|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium Weight''' - 17" 18" 19" 20" 21"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Heavy''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Thin''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Heavy|Concert Heavy]] - 17", 18", 19", [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Sound Edge|Concert Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Sound Edge|20"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 12"|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 13"|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 14"|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 15"|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 16"|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching Sound Edge|Marching Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 14"|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 15"|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 16"|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 18"|18"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Modern Essentials ==<br />
[[File:FORMULA602 ME Group.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Fredy 2016 drumhead mag 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Interview with Fredy Studer describing the development of the M.E. 602 and Vinnie Colaiuta's involvement.]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 2013<br><br />
'''Background:''' Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), offering a complete new wide and dynamic sound dimension, developed in close collaboration with Vinnie Colaiuta, handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, conceived and executed according to Vinnie’s uncompromising sound concepts for a wide all-round application. Formula 602 Modern Essentials cymbals combine the essence of the Formula 602 Classic Sounds models – transparency and stick definition – with the richness, warmth, darkness and a bit of complexity of the Signature Traditionals series besides providing slightly more pizzazz than its Classic Sounds siblings.<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Low to medium loud settings •especially well-suited for recording, live • extremely versatile cymbals for a wide range of music styles such as Pop, Rock, Jazz, Fusion, Blues, R&B, Country, Folk, acoustic music <br><br />
'''Sound:'''Deep, full, rich, warm, lively, silvery, dynamic, controlled and precise • Cymbals that combine clarity, consistency with deepness and warmth, yet providing a modern versatile sound character with dynamic, potent, well balanced qualities and a responsive, soft feel<br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 21" Ride|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 24" Ride|24"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 17" Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 19" Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China|China]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" China|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" China|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 10" Splash|10"]]<br><br><br />
== Seven Sound Set ==<br />
[[File:Paiste seven sound set advert.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1968 brochure]]<br />
[[File:7 sound set.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Complete 7 sound set]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1977<br><br />
'''Background:''' The following description of the Seven Sound Set was printed in Paiste's 1969 catalog:<br><br />
"A set of seven cymbals each in a new unusual sound-color. Sound colors the demanding drummer is looking for to enrich his personal cymbal set. Particularly, the SEVEN SOUND SET enables the studio drummer to fulfill the many and often unusual sound demands involved in modern recording and studio work."<br><br />
<br />
'''Flat ride Background:''' From a 2006 Robert Paiste interview: "The Flat Ride is the first and the last cymbal that more or less came out of a gag. That was with Joe Morello, he visited here once and at that time there were these new super thin Swiss watches, he was fascinated with his new super thin watch that he had just got. He said, "why don't you make a cymbal like that?" I wondered, what does a cymbal without a bell sound like? Well, we were making gongs, but I didn't relate to that, we built prototypes, which surprised us very much with the sound."<br> <br />
The very early versions or possibly prototypes were labeled "Space Sound" in medium (confirmed) and possibly thin weight. It also believed that less than a dozen of these were made before the name changed to "flat ride"<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's <br><br />
* '''1 [[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 1|Seven Sound Set 1 - 8"]]<br><br />
* '''2 [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 2|Seven Sound Set 2 - 11"]]<br><br />
* '''3 [[Paiste Bright Ride|Bright Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 3|Seven Sound Set 3 - 17"]]<br><br />
* '''4 [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 4|Seven Sound Set 4 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''5 [[Paiste Ride/Crash|Ride/Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 5|Seven Sound Set 5 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''6 [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 6|Seven Sound Set 6 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''7 [[Paiste Deep Ride|Deep Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 7|Seven Sound Set 7 - 20"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Joe Morello Set ==<br />
[[File:Joe morello.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1975 Paiste profiles]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967ish - 1977 (based on serial numbers)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1976<br><br />
'''Background:''' "Late '65, early '66 after Ludwig took over the distribution of Formula 602's for North America, Joe Morello was approached by Bill Ludwig to endorse Paiste. Since Joe played and endorsed Ludwig Drums, he was the obvious choice for a signature cymbal set baring his name. Paiste catalog: "In personal collaboration with Joe Morello, this beautiful melodically coordinated set was created" A custom set of Formula 602 cymbals made to Joe's specification (the 1st. artist model!) comprising of 14" sound edge hi hats, 17", 18" and 20" sizes. Visual cues show much finer lathing and possibly different hammering compared to the standard 602's<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's possibly a little darker?<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 20"|20"]]<br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 17"|17"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash/Ride|Crash/Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 18"|18"]]<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 14"|14"]]<br><br><br />
== Formula 602 Production Eras ==<br />
=== Super Formula 602 (1957/59 - 1963 according to advertising data)===<br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957 when he first opened the Swiss factory (at that point it was a one room shop!).<br><br />
It should be noted that Robert founded the Swiss factory across lake Sempach from where their future B20 alloy supplier "Metallwerke Dornach/Swissmetal" was located (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point, little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!). He initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production, Swissmetal previously had not rolled it to such a thin specification but did have the equipment to do it reliably, Robert literally had to teach the foundry technicians how to roll the blanks to his thin specification without cracking!<br><br />
It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, this means that most likely the "Super formula" didn't reach widespread distribution until about 1959. This (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602".<br><br />
<br />
*One of the stamps of this series (there are two distinct styles) still looks very similar to the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul STAMBUL series] stamp. The Super formula series with the Stambul style logo seems to come in two versions: one with Formula 602 label and one without (see below).<br> <br />
<br />
*There are also two versions of the second style which looks like the early formula 602 stamp: one has the word "Super" written to the upper right ("plain stamp- Super"), the second variation does not have the word "Super" (we call this the "plain stamp"), both leave off the words "formula 602" these variations are thought to represent the evolution of the trademark for the super formula 602 series just as it was coming out.<br><br />
<br />
*It is speculated that the "Super formula" term comes from the process that Swissmetal used to heat, mix, pour and hot roll the B20 alloy.<br><br />
Note: There is an entirely separate series called [http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Super] which is not made from B20 alloy and came later. This has caused a lot of confusion over the years.<br> '''Sound sample:''' [https://youtu.be/Gb_Gl0xqbJs<b>Super Formula 24" ride</b>]<br><br />
<gallery caption="Super Formula 602" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 1.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 2.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 1959 63 catalog back cover.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste Super Stambul Standard ad (Melos 1962).jpg|The super formula 602 is still listed in "Melos" magazine in 1962<br />
File:Paiste-22-2794-stamp.jpg|"Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Early 602 super stambul type logo.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 blank logo 1.jpg| "plain stamp"<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-logo.jpg||"plain stamp-Super"<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery caption="Examples" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:602 14 super thinsm.jpg|14" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 15 thin.jpg|15" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-top.jpg|15" "plain stamp"<br />
File:PXL 20221112 030503044.jpg|15" "plain stamp" hi hats<br />
File:Paiste-602-super-top.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:16 super formula 2.jpg|16" "Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:18 super formula stambul stmp.jpg|18" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-pre602-top.jpg|22" "plain stamp" 602 Cymbal 22"<br />
File:Cleaned super formulas.jpg| Stambul stamp and plain stamp comparison<br />
File:Super x plain stamp location.jpg|Plain stamp location comparison<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Preserial Era (~1962/63 - 1971/72)===<br />
This is the first true era of the Formula 602 series. <br />
==== Early "E over trade" stamp (~1962 to about 1965)====<br />
This early era is identified by several cymbals with these stamps that we have observed and or own, the "E over trade stamp" is the first stamp Paiste used on the early formula 602 series. It is relatively easy to spot the difference between this early stamp the perserial "Solid stamp" and 1970's "Outline stamp" formats.<br />
The discovery of the early 60's logos illustrated in the catalogs below helped confirm the difference.<br><br />
The E over trade stamp has two subtle variations (see pictures below), one version has a wide gap between "Formula 602" and "made in Switzerland" and the other has a much smaller gap. Also, the size of the text in general is smaller and or a different font on the "wide gap stamp" (see side by side comparison below)<br> <br />
<gallery caption="E over Trade" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:63 catalog 20.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste 1963 catalog a.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:E over trade stamp x.jpg| annotated "E over trade" large gap stamp<br />
File:Paiste-early-602-stamp3.jpg| "E over trade" small gap stamp<br />
File:PXL 20221029 234009393.jpg| "E over trade" large gap stamp<br />
File:Large gap small gap.jpg| large gap/small gap comparison<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:602 18 e over trade 2.jpg|18 medium<br />
File:602 20 e ovr trd med ride.jpg|20" medium ride<br />
File:PXL 20221029 233944523.jpg|22" medium ride<br />
File:Arbiter 602.jpg|Arbiter "Custom" stamp<br />
</gallery ><br />
==== Solid Stamp (~1965 - early/mid 1972)====<br />
In simplest terms, the name "solid stamp" comes from the solid block letters that comprise the words "Paiste and "Formula 602", this stamp was used roughly from 1965 to 1972.<br><br />
The earliest example we have seen of the Solid Stamp is from a 1965 catalog shown below. We believe the change of stamp coincided with Ludwig taking over North American distribution in late 1964/early 1965.<br> <br />
There are some exceptions where a cymbal was made during the preserial era and stamped with a "solid stamp" and ink, then the cymbal sat in the vault for a few years, the cymbal was then stamped with a serial number when it was shipped to the distributor (see example below).<br><br />
<gallery caption="Solid Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste 1965ish catalog 1.jpg| ~1965 catalog<br />
File:Paiste 63 catalog 2.jpg|1965 catalog showing "modern" stamp format<br />
File:Paiste-602-solid.jpg|annotated solid stamp<br />
File:Paiste-18-1510-stamp.jpg|solid stamp<br />
File:Solid stamp b.jpg|<br />
File:PXL 20230528 003028603.jpg|<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:PXL 20221228 020839223.jpg|solid stamp with 1974 serial number<br />
File:602 transition ink.jpg|close up of solid stamp<br />
File:23 Heavy 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Black Label Era (1972 -1981)===<br />
There are two different embossed stamps which are found in this era: solid stamp early on and then the outline stamp for the rest of the era. then there are two oddities: an archaic "E over trade" stamp for German 602's and the super formula stamp "plain stamp" for Rogers distributed dark rides).<br> <br />
This era represents cymbals produced from about mid 1972 to mid 1981 before colored labels were silkscreened on the top and bottom. Almost all Black Label era cymbals have serial numbers but there are a few examples of cymbals from the early 1970s which have Black Label style ink but no serial number. <br />
<br />
==== Outline Stamp (1972-1981)====<br />
The Outline Stamp is used from just before serial numbers appear until the Blue Label era (1981). If you see a Formula 602 cymbal with an Outline Stamp it is something like 99% likely to have a serial number. <br />
<gallery caption="Outline Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-outline-stamp.jpg|Annotated Outline Stamp<br />
File:Outline stamp b.jpeg|1980<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055608775.jpg|1976<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055717280.jpg|1975<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055759138.jpg|1980<br />
File:Solid vs outline stmp.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
File:PXL 20230529 021307993.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
</gallery><br />
==== Rogers U.S. 602 Dark Ride '76-'77 and European 602 version 1975-1978====<br />
The super formula 602 "plain stamp" appears on Rogers U.S. distributed Dark Rides from 1976-1977 this stamp does not have the "Formula 602" on the bottom of the stamp. So far every Rogers U.S dark ride cymbal we have seen has a serial number.<br><br />
We have also observed sor far from dozens of examples that all European distributed dark rides were stamped with the standard "outline stamp" from the black label era ('72 -'81), in addition, with a few exceptions all have the "Formula 602" ink printed above the bell.<br><br />
We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing![https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Formula_602_22%22_Dark_Ride <b>More on the Dark ride page!</b>]<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Super formula plain stamp.jpg|The super formula 602 "plain stamp" is identical to the stamp used on the Rogers 602 dark rides!<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-stamp.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Dark-stamp.jpg|European Dark Ride: "outline stamp"<br />
File:Trans 602 22 dark ride stamps.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:602 22 dark ride.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-top.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:22 dark 4.jpg|European dark ride with outline stamp<br />
File:22 dark 2.jpg|European dark ride outline stamp<br />
File:349227047 214684508023232 989629301524005366 n.jpg|selection of European dark rides stamped with the standard "outline stamp", bottom right 2 cymbals are early Sound creations<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==== German 602's (early 1960's and mid 1970's?) ====<br />
We know the German factory "finished" 602's in the early 60's when production was ramping up:<br />
<br />
(**) Correspondence with Paiste Switzerland:<br><br />
<i>"By reason of a distributed capacitance, we have some Formula 602's that have been finished in Germany at the end of the 1950's.<br><br />
They were annealed and hammered in Switzerland and Paiste Germany has completed them. That’s the reason they have a stamp “made in Germany”.<br><br />
<br />
Kind regards, Customer Service Department<br><br />
Paiste Switzerland"</i><br><br><br />
<br />
The German 602's were meant for the German market and probably certain countries in Central Europe and eastern Europe, everyone else got Swiss produced cymbals.<br />
We have found a return of German 602's in the mid to late 1970's, they can be identified from the archaic "E over trade" stamp and a serial number starting with a "1".<br />
<gallery caption="Made in West Germany" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:16 german 602.jpg<br />
File:German 602.jpg<br />
File:German 602 stamp.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-serial.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-top.jpg|<br />
File:22-3100-ink.jpg|<br />
File:22-3100-top.jpg|<br />
File:German 602 (2).jpg|<br />
File:18-1510-side.jpg|<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Blue Label Era ===<br />
During the Blue Label era (1981-1993) an embossed stamp was no longer applied. Instead Paiste used blue ink.<br />
<gallery caption="Blue Label" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-ink.jpeg|Blue ink 602 Logo<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-inkb.jpeg|Blue ink pAisTe on bottom<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-model.jpeg|Blue model ink<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-top.jpg|Top view<br />
</gallery><br />
[[File:Plasko thin crashes.jpg|1600px|]]<br />
We estimate the year of change from Pre Serial to Black to Blue based on the serial numbers we find:<br><br />
Black label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br><br />
<br><br />
1971: none so far<br><br />
1972: 29<br><br />
1973: 40<br><br />
1974: 41<br><br />
1975: 27<br><br />
1976: 26<br><br />
1977: 32<br><br />
1978: 37<br><br />
1979: 28<br><br />
1980: 18<br><br />
1981: 18<br><br />
1982: 1 (serial number PAISTE 602 / 238079)<br><br />
1983: none so far<br><br />
<br><br />
Blue label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br> <br />
<br><br />
1980: none so far<br><br />
1981: 32<br><br />
1982: 23<br><br />
1983: 17<br><br />
1984: 19<br><br />
1985: 15<br><br />
1986: 13<br><br />
1987: 12<br><br />
1988: 21<br><br />
1989: 8<br><br />
1990: 9<br><br />
1991: 2<br><br />
1992: 4<br><br />
1993: none so far<br><br />
<br />
Note the importance of the prefix. Without the PAISTE 602 prefix that one 1982 Black Label cymbal would have been 1972. If that serial number had prefix pAisTe it would be 1992. Prefix matters, although there are sometimes other ways to correctly assign the decade based on ink and for specific models. If the serial number has a prefix above it -- pay attention. That's what makes the decade (thus the whole serial number) unique. We think the myth of serial numbers starting in 1970 arose because people were not paying proper attention to the prefix. The other contributing factor is not treating the German made serial numbering separately. <br />
<br />
=== Laser Stamp Era ===<br />
When the Formula 602 cymbals were reissued in 2011 they first came out with 8 digit serial numbers as seen on the last of the Blue Label cymbals. Very soon after this Paiste switched to a laser stamp which is on the bottom rather than the top. The Laser Stamp Era is also referred to as the Reissue Era, although once again there are a very few Reissued Formula 602s which don't have a laser stamp. <br />
<gallery caption="Laser Stamp" heights="100" mode="packed"><br />
File:Paiste-602-2011-serial.jpg|2011 embossed serial<br />
File:Paiste-602-laser-stamp.jpg|Laser stamp from 2015<br />
</gallery><br />
<br><br><br />
--------<br />
Information from: Steve Black, the majority of the individual cymbal model/size pictures courtesy of "Splash Baker" and her blue label collection.<br><br />
#Modern Drummer Equipment Annual 1988-89<br><br />
#PAISTE/Ludwig Seven Sound Set Leaflet<br><br />
#Paiste "Six Cymbal Lines" Ad 1981<br><br />
#2019 PAISTE.com<br><br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]<br><br />
Back to [[Paiste|Paiste Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=Paiste_Formula_602&diff=62940Paiste Formula 6022025-02-21T06:08:18Z<p>Type85: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOEDITSECTION__<br />
== Formula 602 ==<br />
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div><br />
[[File:602 logo Blue mod.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Formula 602 logo]]<br />
[[File:Fo 602.png|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Formula602 Group whtbg.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:1985 602 catalog.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1962/63ish (based on advertising and catalogs)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1994 (based on serial numbers) then reissued 2011 to present<br><br />
'''Background:''' <br />
One of the world’s most revered and legendary cymbal lines in history, renown and loved for its fine, delicate musical tone.<br><br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957, this (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602" the predecessor to the Formula 602. It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, then we think the "Super Formula" series ran to about 1962. Evidence shows that the Formula 602 series became available in 1962 and was produced until Paiste's B20 supplier Swissmetal ran into financial difficulties and stopped production of blanks in 1994.<br><br />
'''Innovation:''' Second B20 cymbal made by Paiste, the Formula 602 line also saw the introduction of the [[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]], the [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]], china type with a Turkish bell, splash and bell. <br><br />
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B20_Alloy|B20 Bronze]], also known as "Bell Bronze".<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Manually machine hammered, fine tuned with hand hammering and hand lathed B20 bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Most volume settings • Low to medium loud settings • especially well-suited for recording, live • Jazz, Fusion, Blues, Pop and Rock, Country, Folk, acoustic music.<br><br />
'''Users:''' Professional musicians, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound<br><br />
<b>Late 1960's early 1970's formula 602 users:</b> [https://youtu.be/axEK3x5KIYc?t=30 '''Clive Bunker playing a shiny new set of 602's in 1970 @ the isle of Wight festival.''']<br />
[[File:602 players.jpg|900px|]]<br />
<br />
'''Sound:''' <br />
* Musical, transparent, beautiful, rich, colorful, full, clear, expressive sound • The model range features everything from particularly delicate, well balanced and sensitive to expressive, potent and powerful and projective qualities<br />
* Warm, silvery, mellow, cool, light, fine, precise and controlled • Cymbals with clarity and retro vintage character combined with a velvety, sensitive, very responsive feel. (4)<br><br />
* Formula 602 sounds are very precise, very clear and very pure. They are suited to acoustic music, jazz, classical performances and recording. Only a delicate touch is required to produce their distinctive, cool and natural response. (1)<br />
* Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, Formula 602 Classic Sounds cymbals produce a true, pure sound of unique clarity and consistency.<br><br />
=== Formula 602 Models in Production ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Thin|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium Ride|24"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Paperthin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Paperthin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Paperthin|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin Crash|22"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Bell|13"]]<br><br />
=== <b>Discontinued Models & Sizes</b> ===<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Dark Ride|Dark Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Heavy|Flatride Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Heavy|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Heavy|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Flatride Heavy|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Heavy|22"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Medium|Flatride Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Medium|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Flatride Medium|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Flatride Medium|22"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Flatride Thin|Flatride Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Flatride Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Flatride Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Flatride Thin|24"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Heavy|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Heavy|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Heavy|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Heavy|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Heavy|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Heavy|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Heavy|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Heavy|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Heavy|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Ride|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Ride|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Medium Ride|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Medium Ride|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium Ride|21"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Medium|Space Sound Medium]]- [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Medium|18"]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Medium|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Space Sound Thin|Space Sound Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Space Sound Thin|18"]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Space Sound Thin|20"]]<br><br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Medium|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Medium|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Medium|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Medium|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Medium|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Medium|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Medium|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Medium|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Medium|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Medium|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Paperthin|Paperthin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Paperthin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Paperthin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Paperthin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Paperthin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Paperthin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Paperthin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Paperthin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Paperthin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Paperthin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Paperthin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Paperthin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Paperthin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Paperthin|26"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Thin|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Thin|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Thin|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Thin|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Thin|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Thin|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Thin|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" Thin|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 23" Thin|23"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin|26"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 28" Thin|28"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Thin Crash|Thin Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Thin Crash|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Thin Crash|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Thin Crash|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Thin Crash|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 21" Thin Crash|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" Thin Crash|24"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 26" Thin Crash|26"]]<br><br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Hi-Hat|15"]] <br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Extra Heavy Sound Edge Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Hi-Hat|Heavy Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Heavy Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Medium Hi-Hat|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 16" Medium Hi-Hat|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Medium Hi-Hat|17"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Sound Edge Hi-Hat|Sound Edge Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 13" Sound Edge Hi-Hat|13"]]<br><br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 16" China Type|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" China Type|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" China Type|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 22" China Type|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 24" China Type|24"]]<br><br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
[[File:Bells.JPG|thumb|right|450px]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Heavy Bell|Heavy Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Heavy Bell|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 9" Heavy Bell|9"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Heavy Bell|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Heavy Bell|11"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 12" Heavy Bell|12"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 10" Splash|10"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Splash|11"]]<br><br />
==== Other ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Cup Chime|Cup Chime]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 8" Cup Chime|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 11" Cup Chime|11"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert|Concert]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 17" Concert|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 19" Concert|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert|20"]]<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium Weight''' - 17" 18" 19" 20" 21"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Heavy''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''Concert Medium-Thin''' - 18" 19" 20"<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Heavy|Concert Heavy]] - 17", 18", 19", [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Heavy|20"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Concert Sound Edge|Concert Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 18" Concert Sound Edge|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 20" Concert Sound Edge|20"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching|Marching]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 12"|12"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 13"|13"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 14"|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 15"|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching 16"|16"]]<br><br />
* '''[[Paiste Marching Sound Edge|Marching Sound Edge]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 14"|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 15"|15"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 16"|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Marching Sound Edge 18"|18"]]<br><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Formula 602 Modern Essentials ==<br />
[[File:FORMULA602 ME Group.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]<br />
[[File:Fredy 2016 drumhead mag 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Interview with Fredy Studer describing the development of the M.E. 602 and Vinnie Colaiuta's involvement.]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 2013<br><br />
'''Background:''' Forged from the legendary «602 Bronze» (CuSn20), offering a complete new wide and dynamic sound dimension, developed in close collaboration with Vinnie Colaiuta, handcrafted from start to finish by highly skilled Swiss craftsmen, conceived and executed according to Vinnie’s uncompromising sound concepts for a wide all-round application. Formula 602 Modern Essentials cymbals combine the essence of the Formula 602 Classic Sounds models – transparency and stick definition – with the richness, warmth, darkness and a bit of complexity of the Signature Traditionals series besides providing slightly more pizzazz than its Classic Sounds siblings.<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Quality:''' Professional<br><br />
'''Offered as:''' [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]] - [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602 Modern Essentials|Formula 602 Modern Essentials]]<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Low to medium loud settings •especially well-suited for recording, live • extremely versatile cymbals for a wide range of music styles such as Pop, Rock, Jazz, Fusion, Blues, R&B, Country, Folk, acoustic music <br><br />
'''Sound:'''Deep, full, rich, warm, lively, silvery, dynamic, controlled and precise • Cymbals that combine clarity, consistency with deepness and warmth, yet providing a modern versatile sound character with dynamic, potent, well balanced qualities and a responsive, soft feel<br><br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Ride|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 21" Ride|21"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Ride|22"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 24" Ride|24"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 16" Crash|16"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 17" Crash|17"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" Crash|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 19" Crash|19"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 20" Crash|20"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" Crash|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 14" Hi-Hat|14"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15" Hi-Hat|15"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Chinas (& Swishes) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste China|China]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 18" China|18"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22" China|22"]]<br><br />
<br />
==== Splashes (& Bells) ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 8" Splash|8"]] [[Paiste Formula 602 Modern Essentials 10" Splash|10"]]<br><br><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Seven Sound Set ==<br />
[[File:Paiste seven sound set advert.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1968 brochure]]<br />
[[File:7 sound set.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Complete 7 sound set]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1977<br><br />
'''Background:''' The following description of the Seven Sound Set was printed in Paiste's 1969 catalog:<br><br />
"A set of seven cymbals each in a new unusual sound-color. Sound colors the demanding drummer is looking for to enrich his personal cymbal set. Particularly, the SEVEN SOUND SET enables the studio drummer to fulfill the many and often unusual sound demands involved in modern recording and studio work."<br><br />
<br />
'''Flat ride Background:''' From a 2006 Robert Paiste interview: "The Flat Ride is the first and the last cymbal that more or less came out of a gag. That was with Joe Morello, he visited here once and at that time there were these new super thin Swiss watches, he was fascinated with his new super thin watch that he had just got. He said, "why don't you make a cymbal like that?" I wondered, what does a cymbal without a bell sound like? Well, we were making gongs, but I didn't relate to that, we built prototypes, which surprised us very much with the sound."<br> <br />
The very early versions or possibly prototypes were labeled "Space Sound" in medium (confirmed) and possibly thin weight. It also believed that less than a dozen of these were made before the name changed to "flat ride"<br><br />
<br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's <br><br />
* '''1 [[Paiste Bell|Bell]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 1|Seven Sound Set 1 - 8"]]<br><br />
* '''2 [[Paiste Splash|Splash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 2|Seven Sound Set 2 - 11"]]<br><br />
* '''3 [[Paiste Bright Ride|Bright Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 3|Seven Sound Set 3 - 17"]]<br><br />
* '''4 [[Paiste Flatride|Flatride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 4|Seven Sound Set 4 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''5 [[Paiste Ride/Crash|Ride/Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 5|Seven Sound Set 5 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''6 [[Paiste China Type|China Type]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 6|Seven Sound Set 6 - 18"]]<br><br />
* '''7 [[Paiste Deep Ride|Deep Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound Set 7|Seven Sound Set 7 - 20"]]<br><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Formula 602 Joe Morello Set ==<br />
[[File:Joe morello.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1975 Paiste profiles]]<br />
'''Introduction:''' 1967ish - 1977 (based on serial numbers)<br><br />
'''Discontinued:''' 1976<br><br />
'''Background:''' "Late '65, early '66 after Ludwig took over the distribution of Formula 602's for North America, Joe Morello was approached by Bill Ludwig to endorse Paiste. Since Joe played and endorsed Ludwig Drums, he was the obvious choice for a signature cymbal set baring his name. Paiste catalog: "In personal collaboration with Joe Morello, this beautiful melodically coordinated set was created" A custom set of Formula 602 cymbals made to Joe's specification (the 1st. artist model!) comprising of 14" sound edge hi hats, 17", 18" and 20" sizes. Visual cues show much finer lathing and possibly different hammering compared to the standard 602's<br><br />
'''Alloy:''' B20 (CuSn20)<br><br />
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing. <br><br />
'''Applications:''' Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).<br><br />
'''Sound:''' Similar to the standard 602's possibly a little darker?<br />
==== Rides ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Ride|Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 20"|20"]]<br />
==== Crashes ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash|Crash]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 17"|17"]]<br />
* '''[[Paiste Crash/Ride|Crash/Ride]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 18"|18"]]<br />
==== Hi-Hats ====<br />
* '''[[Paiste Hi-Hat|Hi-Hat]] - [[Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Set 14"|14"]]<br><br />
<br />
== Formula 602 Production Eras ==<br />
<br />
=== Super Formula 602 (1957/59 - 1963 according to advertising data)===<br />
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957 when he first opened the Swiss factory (at that point it was a one room shop!).<br><br />
It should be noted that Robert founded the Swiss factory across lake Sempach from where their future B20 alloy supplier "Metallwerke Dornach/Swissmetal" was located (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point, little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!). He initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production, Swissmetal previously had not rolled it to such a thin specification but did have the equipment to do it reliably, Robert literally had to teach the foundry technicians how to roll the blanks to his thin specification without cracking!<br><br />
It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years refining the production process ('57-'59), sound characteristics and model names and sizes, this means that most likely the "Super formula" didn't reach widespread distribution until about 1959. This (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602".<br><br />
<br />
*One of the stamps of this series (there are two distinct styles) still looks very similar to the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul STAMBUL series] stamp. The Super formula series with the Stambul style logo seems to come in two versions: one with Formula 602 label and one without (see below).<br> <br />
<br />
*There are also two versions of the second style which looks like the early formula 602 stamp: one has the word "Super" written to the upper right ("plain stamp- Super"), the second variation does not have the word "Super" (we call this the "plain stamp"), both leave off the words "formula 602" these variations are thought to represent the evolution of the trademark for the super formula 602 series just as it was coming out.<br><br />
<br />
*It is speculated that the "Super formula" term comes from the process that Swissmetal used to heat, mix, pour and hot roll the B20 alloy.<br><br />
Note: There is an entirely separate series called [http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Super] which is not made from B20 alloy and came later. This has caused a lot of confusion over the years.<br> '''Sound sample:''' [https://youtu.be/Gb_Gl0xqbJs<b>Super Formula 24" ride</b>]<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 1.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 2.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste 1959 63 catalog back cover.jpg|'59-'62 catalogs<br />
File:Paiste Super Stambul Standard ad (Melos 1962).jpg|The super formula 602 is still listed in "Melos" magazine in 1962<br />
File:Paiste-22-2794-stamp.jpg|"Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Early 602 super stambul type logo.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 blank logo 1.jpg| "plain stamp"<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-logo.jpg||"plain stamp-Super"<br />
</gallery><br />
<gallery><br />
File:602 14 super thinsm.jpg|14" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Super 602 15 thin.jpg|15" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-top.jpg|15" "plain stamp"<br />
File:PXL 20221112 030503044.jpg|15" "plain stamp" hi hats<br />
File:Paiste-602-super-top.jpg|"Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:16 super formula 2.jpg|16" "Super only" Stambul stamp<br />
File:18 super formula stambul stmp.jpg|18" "Super formula" Stambul stamp<br />
File:Paiste-pre602-top.jpg|22" "plain stamp" 602 Cymbal 22"<br />
File:Cleaned super formulas.jpg| Stambul stamp and plain stamp comparison<br />
File:Super x plain stamp location.jpg|Plain stamp location comparison<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Preserial Era (~1962/63 - 1971/72)===<br />
This is the first true era of the Formula 602 series. <br />
==== Early "E over trade" stamp (~1962 to about 1965)====<br />
This early era is identified by several cymbals with these stamps that we have observed and or own, the "E over trade stamp" is the first stamp Paiste used on the early formula 602 series. It is relatively easy to spot the difference between this early stamp the perserial "Solid stamp" and 1970's "Outline stamp" formats.<br />
The discovery of the early 60's logos illustrated in the catalogs below helped confirm the difference.<br><br />
The E over trade stamp has two subtle variations (see pictures below), one version has a wide gap between "Formula 602" and "made in Switzerland" and the other has a much smaller gap. Also, the size of the text in general is smaller and or a different font on the "wide gap stamp" (see side by side comparison below)<br> <br />
<gallery><br />
File:63 catalog 20.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:Paiste 1963 catalog a.jpg|~1963 catalog showing the original "E over trade" logo<br />
File:E over trade stamp x.jpg| annotated "E over trade" large gap stamp<br />
File:Paiste-early-602-stamp3.jpg| "E over trade" small gap stamp<br />
File:PXL 20221029 234009393.jpg| "E over trade" large gap stamp<br />
File:Large gap small gap.jpg| large gap/small gap comparison<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:602 18 e over trade 2.jpg|18 medium<br />
File:602 20 e ovr trd med ride.jpg|20" medium ride<br />
File:PXL 20221029 233944523.jpg|22" medium ride<br />
File:Arbiter 602.jpg|Arbiter "Custom" stamp<br />
</gallery><br />
==== Solid Stamp (~1965 - early/mid 1972)====<br />
In simplest terms, the name "solid stamp" comes from the solid block letters that comprise the words "Paiste and "Formula 602", this stamp was used roughly from 1965 to 1972.<br><br />
The earliest example we have seen of the Solid Stamp is from a 1965 catalog shown below. We believe the change of stamp coincided with Ludwig taking over North American distribution in late 1964/early 1965.<br> <br />
There are some exceptions where a cymbal was made during the preserial era and stamped with a "solid stamp" and ink, then the cymbal sat in the vault for a few years, the cymbal was then stamped with a serial number when it was shipped to the distributor (see example below).<br><br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste 1965ish catalog 1.jpg| ~1965 catalog<br />
File:Paiste 63 catalog 2.jpg|1965 catalog showing "modern" stamp format<br />
File:Paiste-602-solid.jpg|annotated solid stamp<br />
File:Paiste-18-1510-stamp.jpg|solid stamp<br />
File:Solid stamp b.jpg|<br />
File:PXL 20230528 003028603.jpg|<br />
File:602 preserial stamps.jpg|E over trade and solid stamp comparison<br />
File:PXL 20221228 020839223.jpg|solid stamp with 1974 serial number<br />
File:602 transition ink.jpg|close up of solid stamp<br />
File:23 Heavy 2.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
=== Black Label Era (1972 -1981)===<br />
There are two different embossed stamps which are found in this era: solid stamp early on and then the outline stamp for the rest of the era. then there are two oddities: an archaic "E over trade" stamp for German 602's and the super formula stamp "plain stamp" for Rogers distributed dark rides).<br> <br />
This era represents cymbals produced from about mid 1972 to mid 1981 before colored labels were silkscreened on the top and bottom. Almost all Black Label era cymbals have serial numbers but there are a few examples of cymbals from the early 1970s which have Black Label style ink but no serial number. <br />
<br />
==== Outline Stamp (1972-1981)====<br />
The Outline Stamp is used from just before serial numbers appear until the Blue Label era (1981). If you see a Formula 602 cymbal with an Outline Stamp it is something like 99% likely to have a serial number. <br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste-602-outline-stamp.jpg|Annotated Outline Stamp<br />
File:Outline stamp b.jpeg|1980<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055608775.jpg|1976<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055717280.jpg|1975<br />
File:PXL 20230528 055759138.jpg|1980<br />
File:Solid vs outline stmp.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
File:PXL 20230529 021307993.jpg|solid stamp/outline stamp comparison <br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==== Rogers U.S. 602 Dark Ride '76-'77 and European 602 version 1975-1978====<br />
The super formula 602 "plain stamp" appears on Rogers U.S. distributed Dark Rides from 1976-1977 this stamp does not have the "Formula 602" on the bottom of the stamp. So far every Rogers U.S dark ride cymbal we have seen has a serial number.<br><br />
We have also observed sor far from dozens of examples that all European distributed dark rides were stamped with the standard "outline stamp" from the black label era ('72 -'81), in addition, with a few exceptions all have the "Formula 602" ink printed above the bell.<br><br />
We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing![https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Formula_602_22%22_Dark_Ride <b>More on the Dark ride page!</b>]<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Super formula plain stamp.jpg|The super formula 602 "plain stamp" is identical to the stamp used on the Rogers 602 dark rides!<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-stamp.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Dark-stamp.jpg|European Dark Ride: "outline stamp"<br />
File:Trans 602 22 dark ride stamps.jpg|Rogers stamp: E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:602 22 dark ride.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:Paiste-602-Trans-Dark-top.jpg|E over trade/plain stamp<br />
File:22 dark 4.jpg|European dark ride with outline stamp<br />
File:22 dark 2.jpg|European dark ride outline stamp<br />
File:349227047 214684508023232 989629301524005366 n.jpg|selection of European dark rides stamped with the standard "outline stamp", bottom right 2 cymbals are early Sound creations<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==== German 602's (early 1960's and mid 1970's?) ====<br />
We know the German factory "finished" 602's in the early 60's when production was ramping up:<br />
<br />
(**) Correspondence with Paiste Switzerland:<br><br />
<i>"By reason of a distributed capacitance, we have some Formula 602's that have been finished in Germany at the end of the 1950's.<br><br />
They were annealed and hammered in Switzerland and Paiste Germany has completed them. That’s the reason they have a stamp “made in Germany”.<br><br />
<br />
Kind regards, Customer Service Department<br><br />
Paiste Switzerland"</i><br><br><br />
<br />
The German 602's were meant for the German market and probably certain countries in Central Europe and eastern Europe, everyone else got Swiss produced cymbals.<br />
We have found a return of German 602's in the mid to late 1970's, they can be identified from the archaic "E over trade" stamp and a serial number starting with a "1".<br />
<gallery><br />
File:16 german 602.jpg<br />
File:German 602.jpg<br />
File:German 602 stamp.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-serial.jpg|<br />
File:14-990-1000-top.jpg|<br />
File:22-3100-ink.jpg|<br />
File:22-3100-top.jpg|<br />
File:German 602 (2).jpg|<br />
File:18-1510-side.jpg|<br />
</gallery><br />
=== Blue Label Era ===<br />
During the Blue Label era (1981-1993) an embossed stamp was no longer applied. Instead Paiste used blue ink.<br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-ink.jpeg|Blue ink 602 Logo<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-inkb.jpeg|Blue ink pAisTe on bottom<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-model.jpeg|Blue model ink<br />
File:Paiste-16-1089-top.jpg|Top view<br />
</gallery><br />
[[File:Plasko thin crashes.jpg|1600px|]]<br />
<br />
We estimate the year of change from Pre Serial to Black to Blue based on the serial numbers we find:<br><br />
<br />
Black label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br><br />
<br><br />
1971: none so far<br><br />
1972: 29<br><br />
1973: 40<br><br />
1974: 41<br><br />
1975: 27<br><br />
1976: 26<br><br />
1977: 32<br><br />
1978: 37<br><br />
1979: 28<br><br />
1980: 18<br><br />
1981: 18<br><br />
1982: 1 (serial number PAISTE 602 / 238079)<br><br />
1983: none so far<br><br />
<br><br />
Blue label serial numbers (counting hat pairs as 2)<br> <br />
<br><br />
1980: none so far<br><br />
1981: 32<br><br />
1982: 23<br><br />
1983: 17<br><br />
1984: 19<br><br />
1985: 15<br><br />
1986: 13<br><br />
1987: 12<br><br />
1988: 21<br><br />
1989: 8<br><br />
1990: 9<br><br />
1991: 2<br><br />
1992: 4<br><br />
1993: none so far<br><br />
<br />
Note the importance of the prefix. Without the PAISTE 602 prefix that one 1982 Black Label cymbal would have been 1972. If that serial number had prefix pAisTe it would be 1992. Prefix matters, although there are sometimes other ways to correctly assign the decade based on ink and for specific models. If the serial number has a prefix above it -- pay attention. That's what makes the decade (thus the whole serial number) unique. We think the myth of serial numbers starting in 1970 arose because people were not paying proper attention to the prefix. The other contributing factor is not treating the German made serial numbering separately. <br />
<br />
=== Laser Stamp Era ===<br />
When the Formula 602 cymbals were reissued in 2011 they first came out with 8 digit serial numbers as seen on the last of the Blue Label cymbals. Very soon after this Paiste switched to a laser stamp which is on the bottom rather than the top. The Laser Stamp Era is also referred to as the Reissue Era, although once again there are a very few Reissued Formula 602s which don't have a laser stamp. <br />
<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Paiste-602-2011-serial.jpg|2011 embossed serial<br />
File:Paiste-602-laser-stamp.jpg|Laser stamp from 2015<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
<br><br><br />
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Information from: Steve Black, the majority of the individual cymbal model/size pictures courtesy of "Splash Baker" and her blue label collection.<br><br />
#Modern Drummer Equipment Annual 1988-89<br><br />
#PAISTE/Ludwig Seven Sound Set Leaflet<br><br />
#Paiste "Six Cymbal Lines" Ad 1981<br><br />
#2019 PAISTE.com<br><br><br />
Back to [[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br><br />
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Back to [[Paiste|Paiste Portal]]</div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=1965_Paiste_catalog&diff=616951965 Paiste catalog2025-02-02T03:27:50Z<p>Type85: </p>
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</gallery></div>Type85http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/index.php?title=1965_Paiste_catalog&diff=616941965 Paiste catalog2025-02-02T03:06:28Z<p>Type85: Created page with "800px| <gallery> File:Story2.jpg File:Story3.jpg File:Story4.jpg File:Story5.jpg File:Story6.jpg File:Story7.jpg File:Story8.jpg..."</p>
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