Paiste's cymbal production process - Revision history

Type85 at 04:21, 2 October 2023

2023-10-02T04:21:48Z

Type85 at 04:00, 28 September 2023

2023-09-28T04:00:55Z

Type85 at 03:36, 28 September 2023

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Type85 at 06:16, 5 September 2023

2023-09-05T06:16:34Z

Type85 at 03:21, 30 August 2023

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Type85 at 03:06, 30 August 2023

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Type85 at 02:56, 20 August 2023

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Type85 at 04:56, 3 May 2023

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Type85 at 06:08, 12 March 2023

2023-03-12T06:08:21Z

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 --------------
-Special thanks to Fritz Steger [https://www.drumhouse.com/ of Drumhouse.com]<br>
+Special thanks to Fritz Steger for his eyewitness accounts and observations: [https://www.drumhouse.com/ of Drumhouse.com]<br>
 Return to the '''[[Paiste|Paiste Main Page]]<br>
 Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br>
 Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Type Portal]]<br>

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 __NOEDITSECTION__
 <div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
-[[File:Laminage schema gene.png|thumb|right|250px|Material rolling]]
+[[File:Recrystallization-during-hot-rolling.jpg|thumb|right|350px|hot rolling showing change in crystalline structure]]
-[[File:Rolling.gif|thumb|right|250px|Rolling animation]]
+[[File:Hot-rolling-vs-cold-rolling.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Hot-rolling-vs-cold-rolling]]
 ==B20 production (Formula 602, Modern essentials 602’s)==
 ''<b>The processes described below apply to Paiste's current "top line" cymbals and some of their "midline" cymbals.</b>''<br>
@@ Line 11: / Line 10: @@
 *The B20  “blanks” were supplied by [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetal '''Swissmetal'''] from 1957 to 1994, they were originally called "Metallwerke Dornach AG".<br>
 *Metallwerke Dornach supplied B20 alloy for the Swiss mint, Swiss coins were made out of B20 bronze.<br>
-*Robert Paiste founded the Swiss factory across the lake from where Metallwerke Dornach was located by accident (Paiste had not started using B20 alloy at that time), little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!<br>
+*Robert Paiste founded the Swiss factory across the lake from where Metallwerke Dornach was located by accident (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point), little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!<br>
 *Robert Paiste initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production: [https://youtu.be/KH2TPkhL0Ik?si=fTiEIgBqsqbBE5d9 <b>Fritz Steger's explanation of the sourcing and development of Paiste's B20 alloy</b>].<br>
 *The Formula 602 and Sound creation lines were discontinued around 1994 (or earlier) because Swissmetal stopped making B20 blanks, it is understood that Swissmetal went through substantial financial difficulties during this time, it’s assumed it wasn’t cost effective for them at that point as Paiste would have been a small customer.
@@ Line 18: / Line 17: @@
 There are advantages to using industrial foundries and mills: Production is on a much larger scale, they can produce several hundred blanks from one batch of alloy, the foundry also has the ability to keep incredibly tight tolerances on temperature control and mixing along with metallurgical analysis to ensure the alloy has the correct characteristics for reliable consistent cymbals making.<br>
-'''The production process at the foundry and mill:''' B20 bronze is produced by hot rolling [1] in multiple stages from a thick plank/ingot into a thin sheet slightly thicker than the heaviest cymbal thickness required (Wieland works may use the "continuous casting" process for B20 alloys).<br>
+'''The production process at the foundry and mill:''' B20 bronze is produced by hot rolling [1] in multiple stages from a thick plank/ingot into a thin sheet slightly thicker than the heaviest cymbal thickness required (Wieland works may use the '''continuous casting''' process for B20 alloys, see below).<br>
 (The “hot rolling process” [1] forms the desired and stable crystalline structure that contributes to the more refined sound of Bell Bronze). B20 is a "two-phase" alloy: meaning some of the tin is not dissolved in the copper grains but exists between them, in its natural state it is very brittle, there is a large amount of work done to the material (heating/recrystallisation) to get it conditioned so it can be hammered and lathed without cracking.<br>
 After being rolled out to approximate size and thickness, flat blanks are cut to the specified size and delivered to Paiste. They are then reheated to "anneal" them (soften) and then quenched in water, a bell is then stamped in the blank.<br>
@@ Line 31: / Line 30: @@
 *Paiste is the only company out of the “big four” (Paiste, Zildjian, Sabian and Meinl) that uses manual machine hammering to shape the curve or “bow” of all of their top line cymbals. they have used the same process since 1952.
 *Meinl uses a computer controlled hammering machine to shape one line of their cymbals otherwise the majority are "spin formed" into shape (the exception are Meinl's Byzance Turkish made cymbals), all of their cymbal production is completely computer controlled and automated.
-*Zildjian and Sabian use a 75 ton press to '''STAMP''' most of their cymbals to create the "bow" or shape of the cymbal (there are some exceptions).
+*Zildjian and Sabian use a 75 ton press to '''STAMP''' most of their cymbals to create the "bow" or shape of the cymbal (there are some exceptions).<br>
 '''Specification card:''' Each cymbal-smith has a “specification card” that travels with each model/size of cymbal, it tells him the exact weight, thickness and hammering pattern for that cymbal.<br>
@@ Line 41: / Line 39: @@
 '''Finishing:''' The edges are cleaned up and chamfered, a serial number is laser etched into the bottom. The cymbals then have their respective logo, model, size printed on them and a protective coating is applied (Paiste was the 1st. to do this with the 602 series in the 1960’s).<br>
-'''Quality control:''' Each cymbal is tested against a finished “Klangmuster” (master cymbal) for consistency, if it does not pass the cymbal is rejected and melted down.<br><br>
+'''Quality control:''' Each cymbal is tested against a finished “Klangmuster” (master cymbal) for consistency, if it does not pass the cymbal is rejected and scraped.<br>
 <gallery>

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 ==B15 (Paiste Signature Sound Alloy)==
 [[File:Paiste demo.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]
-Paiste's B15 (Signature Sound Alloy) blanks are supplied by the "Wieland works" in Vöhringen Germany. They were initially supplied by "Kovohutí Příbram" from the Czech republic but they had serious issues with cracking, once the production moved to Wieland, the issue was resolved. [https://youtu.be/pWpRXFcAc68 Fritz Steger describes the early production issues with B15]<br>
+Paiste's B15 (Signature Sound Alloy) blanks are supplied by the "Wieland works" in Vöhringen Germany. They were initially supplied by "Kovohutí Příbram" from the Czech republic but they had serious issues with cracking, once the production moved to Wieland, the issue was resolved. [https://youtu.be/senTufOv2n4?si=cA11bOQev74yQqoq Fritz Steger describes the early production issues with B15]<br>
 B15 like B20, goes through some of the same processes: initially hot rolled to about 60mm thickness then the last stage is cold rolled. Also, it is not tempered [4] like traditional B20 cymbals but is annealed [3].<br>
 Using this alloy allows for greater consistency between blanks compared to traditional B20 cymbal alloy, and is more inline with Paiste's B8 production methods.<br>

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 *Metallwerke Dornach supplied B20 alloy for the Swiss mint, Swiss coins were made out of B20 bronze.<br>
 *Robert Paiste founded the Swiss factory across the lake from where Metallwerke Dornach was located by accident (Paiste had not started using B20 alloy at that time), little did he know they were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!<br>
-*Robert Paiste initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XShHwyi0rzE <b>Fritz Steger's explanation of the sourcing and development of Paiste's B20 alloy</b>].<br>
+*Robert Paiste initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production: [https://youtu.be/KH2TPkhL0Ik?si=fTiEIgBqsqbBE5d9 <b>Fritz Steger's explanation of the sourcing and development of Paiste's B20 alloy</b>].<br>
 *The Formula 602 and Sound creation lines were discontinued around 1994 (or earlier) because Swissmetal stopped making B20 blanks, it is understood that Swissmetal went through substantial financial difficulties during this time, it’s assumed it wasn’t cost effective for them at that point as Paiste would have been a small customer.
 *"Wieland works" in Vöhringen Germany now supply all of Paiste's alloys but specifically; they supply the B20 blanks for the “classic 602’s” and "modern essentials 602’s".<br>

@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 </gallery>
-[https://youtu.be/zPwx1rIDTl8 Rhythm Magazine Paiste factory tour - Part One]
+[https://youtu.be/ePPjzMeH830?si=aiiWyX6hRsFM4ua_ Rhythm Magazine Paiste factory tour B8 production]
 ==Twenty and Twenty Masters Collection production==
 The original  “Twenty” blanks were supplied from the Foundry of Murat Diril in Turkey along with pre-work done to the cymbals before they were shipped off to Switzerland for completion.<br>

@@ Line 78: / Line 78: @@
 '''Quality control:''' Same processes as B20.<br>
-'''Early 90's factory tour with Nicko McBrain''' [https://youtu.be/aLs4cNCSMBI B15 Signature cymbal production tour]<br>
+'''Early 90's factory tour with Nicko McBrain''' [https://youtu.be/6EL3AtOyJs0 B15 Signature cymbal production tour]<br>
 <gallery>

@@ Line 181: / Line 181: @@
 File:Zildjian-sheet-metal-ad.jpg|"stamped out of sheet metal"
 </gallery>
 ==Notes and references==

@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 File:Thin ride.jpg|1960's Preparing for shipment
 </gallery>
-===Twenty and Twenty Masters Collection production===
 The original  “Twenty” blanks were supplied from the Foundry of Murat Diril in Turkey along with pre-work done to the cymbals before they were shipped off to Switzerland for completion.<br>
 There were well publicized issues with the quality of the blanks and high rejection rate, so Turkish suppliers were changed before the current Twenty Custom/Twenty Masters series started.<br>

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 Paiste has been using this technique and the same type of machines since at least the mid 50’s or earlier.<br>
 The next step is fine tuning: a different cymbal-smith now hammers the cymbal by hand to fine tune the shape and checks the bow with a ruler and on a steel flat table to make sure the edges are straight, he also checks the cymbal against a “master” for hammer pattern and shape of the bow.<br>
-*Paiste is the only company out of the “big four” (Paiste, Zildjian, Sabian and Meinl) that uses manual machine hammering to shape the curve or “bow” of the cymbal (Meinl used a computer controlled hammering machine to shape one line of their cymbals otherwise they are stamped into shape): Zildjian and Sabian use a 75 ton press to and '''STAMP''' their most of their cymbals into shape (there ar eexceptions). With the exception of Meinl's Turkish made cymbals, all of their cymbal production is completely computer automated.<br>
+*Paiste is the only company out of the “big four” (Paiste, Zildjian, Sabian and Meinl) that uses manual machine hammering to shape the curve or “bow” of the cymbal (Meinl used a computer controlled hammering machine to shape one line of their cymbals otherwise they are stamped into shape): Zildjian and Sabian use a 75 ton press to and '''STAMP''' their most of their cymbals into shape (there are exceptions). With the exception of Meinl's Turkish made cymbals, all of their cymbal production is completely computer controlled and automated.<br>
 '''Specification card:''' Each cymbal-smith has a “specification card” that travels with each model/size of cymbal, it tells him the exact weight, thickness and hammering pattern for that cymbal.<br>