Difference between revisions of "Paiste Zilko"
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'''Marching "Chinese style" (in pairs):'''<br> | '''Marching "Chinese style" (in pairs):'''<br> | ||
14" through 18" and 20"<br> | 14" through 18" and 20"<br> | ||
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*At some point between 1953 and 1957 a 14" Hi Hat option is added to the Zilko line.<br> | *At some point between 1953 and 1957 a 14" Hi Hat option is added to the Zilko line.<br> | ||
| − | + | [https://youtu.be/ZvRe3gFz97s <b>12" Brass Zilko hi hats</b>] | |
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<gallery> | <gallery> | ||
File:Early zilko logo.jpg|Late 40's brass German Zilko logo | File:Early zilko logo.jpg|Late 40's brass German Zilko logo | ||
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[[File:Zilko standard logo.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Note: there is no "TRADE MARK" to the sides of the moon and star, there is also no "M. Paiste" signature, at some point, those elements were added to the German made Zilkos]] | [[File:Zilko standard logo.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Note: there is no "TRADE MARK" to the sides of the moon and star, there is also no "M. Paiste" signature, at some point, those elements were added to the German made Zilkos]] | ||
'''Introduction:''' about 1958<br> | '''Introduction:''' about 1958<br> | ||
| − | '''Discontinued:''' | + | '''Discontinued:''' 1959<br> |
| − | '''Background:''' Most likely the name change occurred when Paiste switched from brass to NS12, The current thinking for model progression is: Brass Zilko from '48 to '58: (Swiss plant produced brass Zilkos for a short period), '58 to ' | + | '''Background:''' Most likely the name change occurred when Paiste switched from brass to NS12, The current thinking for model progression is: Brass Zilko from '48 to '58: (Swiss plant produced brass Zilkos for a short period), '58 to '59: change to NS12 alloy, name change to Zilko standard, '59 to '63: renamed "Standard" (also made from NS12) then replaced by Dixie in '63. It's unclear on the stamping variations, but Paiste confirmed they are the same cymbal regardless of how the logo was applied.<br> |
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver]]<br> | '''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver]]<br> | ||
'''Quality:''' Budget, student, entry level<br> | '''Quality:''' Budget, student, entry level<br> | ||
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File:Zilko standard 1.jpg|German Zilko standard | File:Zilko standard 1.jpg|German Zilko standard | ||
File:Zilko 20 cr ride ns12.jpg|20" crash ride | File:Zilko 20 cr ride ns12.jpg|20" crash ride | ||
| + | File:Ziko standard 14 3.jpg|14" cymbal | ||
| + | File:Zilko standard logo2.jpg|14" logo | ||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
__NOEDITSECTION__ | __NOEDITSECTION__ | ||
== Standard == | == Standard == | ||
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[[File:Standard logo.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]] | [[File:Standard logo.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]] | ||
[[File:Standard logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]] | [[File:Standard logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]] | ||
| − | '''Introduction:''' about | + | '''Introduction:''' about 1959<br> |
| − | '''Discontinued:''' | + | '''Discontinued:''' 1962/3 (replaced by the Dixie)<br> |
'''Background:''' Not to be confused with the "Ludwig Standard" line of cymbals, these were produced before the Ludwig's but the name could've been transferred post 1963 (Paiste had a bad habit of reusing names for different products of different quality).<br> | '''Background:''' Not to be confused with the "Ludwig Standard" line of cymbals, these were produced before the Ludwig's but the name could've been transferred post 1963 (Paiste had a bad habit of reusing names for different products of different quality).<br> | ||
We have proof of the "Standards" existence from the back cover of a early 60's catalog (see below), unfortunately, we do not have the inside pages to the catalog, so we have no data on types and sizes offered on this series, early 1960s catalogs need to be found to answer these questions, Paiste customer service has confirmed they were made until around 1963 or so, then replaced by the Dixie.<br> | We have proof of the "Standards" existence from the back cover of a early 60's catalog (see below), unfortunately, we do not have the inside pages to the catalog, so we have no data on types and sizes offered on this series, early 1960s catalogs need to be found to answer these questions, Paiste customer service has confirmed they were made until around 1963 or so, then replaced by the Dixie.<br> | ||
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File:14 standard hi hats.jpg|Standard NS12 14" hi-hats | File:14 standard hi hats.jpg|Standard NS12 14" hi-hats | ||
File:Standard cymbal.jpg|Standard 16" or 18" | File:Standard cymbal.jpg|Standard 16" or 18" | ||
| + | File:Paiste Super Stambul Standard ad (Melos 1962).jpg|1962 Melos magazine advert | ||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
| − | ==Arbiter Zilket== | + | ==Arbiter Zilko & Zilket== |
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div> | <div style="float:right">__TOC__</div> | ||
[[File:Zilket arbiter.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Dallas Arbiter Zilket logo]] | [[File:Zilket arbiter.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Dallas Arbiter Zilket logo]] | ||
| + | [[File:Zilko arbiter.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Dallas Arbiter Zilko logo]] | ||
'''Introduction:''' 1965?<br> | '''Introduction:''' 1965?<br> | ||
'''Discontinued:''' 1974?<br> | '''Discontinued:''' 1974?<br> | ||
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver]] - [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]]<br> | '''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver]] - [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B8_.282002.29_Alloy|CuSn8]]<br> | ||
'''Background:''' The only records we have are from the mid-1960's to the early 1970's and they were from distributor catalogs & price lists (Arbiter lists them in thier '71/'72 catalog). Due to the time frame, it's most likely that the early versions of this cymbal line were made of NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), then later, post 1970 from B8 (most of the conversion from NS12 to B8 took place around 1971). Arbiter Zilkets were most likely rebranded [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Supers]. We do know they were made for beginners, advanced students, schools and small combos. The following types and sizes were available during this time frame:<br> | '''Background:''' The only records we have are from the mid-1960's to the early 1970's and they were from distributor catalogs & price lists (Arbiter lists them in thier '71/'72 catalog). Due to the time frame, it's most likely that the early versions of this cymbal line were made of NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), then later, post 1970 from B8 (most of the conversion from NS12 to B8 took place around 1971). Arbiter Zilkets were most likely rebranded [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Supers]. We do know they were made for beginners, advanced students, schools and small combos. The following types and sizes were available during this time frame:<br> | ||
| − | + | '''ARBITER Ltd. '66 PRICE LIST:''' (No weight designated)<br> | |
| + | 11" through 16", 18", and 20"<br> | ||
| + | *Looks like Arbiter started carrying Paiste (with alternate embossing and series names: Arbiter Custom 602, Custom, Zilko, Zilket) in 1962. These were sold until at least 1966 and maybe as late as 1968, by 1969. <br> | ||
| + | Arbiter started carrying standard Paiste branded product lines except for the Zilkets which were sold until the early 1970s.<br> | ||
'''DALLAS-ARBITER '69 & '71-'72 CATALOGS:''' (No weight designated)<br> | '''DALLAS-ARBITER '69 & '71-'72 CATALOGS:''' (No weight designated)<br> | ||
14" hi hats, 16", 18" and 20"<br> | 14" hi hats, 16", 18" and 20"<br> | ||
Latest revision as of 16:10, 7 June 2023
Zilko
Introduction: Post war Germany, possibly 1948 when Michail started production again.
Discontinued: 1958ish (replaced by the NS12 Zilko standard)
Alloy: Brass MS63
Quality: economy or general, mid-level cymbal
Background: Paiste relocated to Germany in Jan. 1945 and most likely started Zilko production in 1947/48, they were produced using MS63 (brass alloy). We do know that these cymbals were not considered, top-of-the-line, rather they were intended as an economy or general, mid-level cymbal.
We don't exactly know what Paiste originally offered size wise (pre 1950), however here's what we do know and includes the following types and sizes:
PAISTE 1950/52/58 CATALOG:
Thin & Medium:
9" through 14" (Jazz type cymbals)
"Charleston" (hi-hats in pairs):
9" through 13" *Note: Hi hat cymbals were referred to as "Charleston" cymbals
Marching "Chinese style" (in pairs):
14" through 18" and 20"
- At some point between 1953 and 1957 a 14" Hi Hat option is added to the Zilko line.
Late 40's brass German Zilko logo
Late 40's brass German Zilko (picture courtesy of Paiste)
Early German Zilko "be bop" cymbals with large bells
Zilko china
Swiss NS12 Zilko 14"
1957 or later Swiss Zilko made of brass
Before cleaning
1950 catalog: they only offered Stambul and Zilko.
1952 Catalog
1952 Catalog
'52/'53 catalog
1958 catalog
1958 catalog
Drum City London ad from 1963. Shows the Arbiter Paiste lines were all available at this time.
Zilko Standard
Introduction: about 1958
Discontinued: 1959
Background: Most likely the name change occurred when Paiste switched from brass to NS12, The current thinking for model progression is: Brass Zilko from '48 to '58: (Swiss plant produced brass Zilkos for a short period), '58 to '59: change to NS12 alloy, name change to Zilko standard, '59 to '63: renamed "Standard" (also made from NS12) then replaced by Dixie in '63. It's unclear on the stamping variations, but Paiste confirmed they are the same cymbal regardless of how the logo was applied.
Alloy: Nickel Silver
Quality: Budget, student, entry level
German Zilko standard
20" crash ride
14" cymbal
14" logo
Standard
Introduction: about 1959
Discontinued: 1962/3 (replaced by the Dixie)
Background: Not to be confused with the "Ludwig Standard" line of cymbals, these were produced before the Ludwig's but the name could've been transferred post 1963 (Paiste had a bad habit of reusing names for different products of different quality).
We have proof of the "Standards" existence from the back cover of a early 60's catalog (see below), unfortunately, we do not have the inside pages to the catalog, so we have no data on types and sizes offered on this series, early 1960s catalogs need to be found to answer these questions, Paiste customer service has confirmed they were made until around 1963 or so, then replaced by the Dixie.
We do know that the Standard series had 14" hi-hats and an 18", whether it was a crash or a ride, we do not know and a 16" crash, as part of their offering.
Alloy: Nickel Silver
Quality: Budget, student, entry level
Late 50's or early 60's catalog
Standard NS12 14" hi-hats
Standard 16" or 18"
1962 Melos magazine advert
.jpg)
Arbiter Zilko & Zilket
Introduction: 1965?
Discontinued: 1974?
Alloy: Nickel Silver - CuSn8
Background: The only records we have are from the mid-1960's to the early 1970's and they were from distributor catalogs & price lists (Arbiter lists them in thier '71/'72 catalog). Due to the time frame, it's most likely that the early versions of this cymbal line were made of NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), then later, post 1970 from B8 (most of the conversion from NS12 to B8 took place around 1971). Arbiter Zilkets were most likely rebranded Supers. We do know they were made for beginners, advanced students, schools and small combos. The following types and sizes were available during this time frame:
ARBITER Ltd. '66 PRICE LIST: (No weight designated)
11" through 16", 18", and 20"
- Looks like Arbiter started carrying Paiste (with alternate embossing and series names: Arbiter Custom 602, Custom, Zilko, Zilket) in 1962. These were sold until at least 1966 and maybe as late as 1968, by 1969.
Arbiter started carrying standard Paiste branded product lines except for the Zilkets which were sold until the early 1970s.
DALLAS-ARBITER '69 & '71-'72 CATALOGS: (No weight designated)
14" hi hats, 16", 18" and 20"
Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 catalog listing Zilkets
1971-72 catalog listing Zilket sizes and prices
Zilket NS12 cymbal
18" Zilket
14" Zilket hi-hats
Zildjian Zilco's
Not to be confused with Paiste's "Zilko", Zildjian's "Zilco" was spelled with a "C" instead of a "K".
They were released in the 1930's well before Paiste's Zilko was but they were not a separate "standalone" line of cymbals:
"Starting in the late '30's the Zilco name was used on cheaper Zildjians that were about a quarter of the price of the regular line.
Zilcos were A Zildjian quality control rejects that were re-sold cheaply, including the Swish cymbals and others sized from 9˝ to 12˝."
VINTAGE CYMBAL HISTORY: ZILDJIAN'S “CHEAP” ZILCO CYMBAL LINE
Information from: Todd Little, Mark Carlson, Dan Garza
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