Difference between revisions of "Paiste Super Formula 602"

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==SUPER FORMULA 602==
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== Super Formula 602 ==
 
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
 
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
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[[File:Super 602 early logo.jpg|thumb|right|380px|1st. Generation Logo:
+
[[File:Super 602 logo 2.jpg|thumb|right|350px|catalog logo]]
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Displayed the larger, hollow block font but with the thin vertical lines (1 or 2) running through each letter, as with the Stambul logos. And, the star & crescent tilted so that the star's tip is at the 11-O'Clock position, and the "Trade" and "Mark" to the outside of the logo work--"Trade" on the left and the "Mark" on the right, as is with the Stambul logo work.  Additionally, the star and crescent both have cross-hatching inside them with the following counts--Star (7-8) and Crescent (12-13).  Beneath this is the "Super" name in a thin cursive script font, and under this is a different style of block font for the "Formula 602" name.  And under this is the "Swiss Made" location.]]
+
[[File:Super 602 logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|catalog logo]]
  
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[[File:Super 602 later logo.jpg|thumb|right|380px|2nd. Generation Logo:
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'''Introduction:''' ~1957-'59<br>
−
Displayed the larger, hollow block font for the "Paiste" name at the top with the "Super" in a thin cursive script font set to the right of the Paiste name and positioned at a higher level. Below this was the typical sun rays, star, and crescent. The "Trade" and "Mark" were off to each side of the star & crescent....the "Trade" being directly under the "E" of the Paiste name.  The crescent utilized 17 cross-hatchings inside it.  Beneath this is the "R.Paiste" signature and under that is the "Made in Switzerland" location.]]
+
'''Discontinued:''' ~1962-'63: replaced by [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|Formula 602]]<br>
 +
'''Background:''' <br>
 +
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957 when he first opened the Swiss factory (at that point it was a one room shop!).<br>
 +
It should be noted that Robert founded the Swiss factory across lake Sempach from where their future B20 alloy supplier "Metallwerke Dornach/Swissmetal" was located (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point, little did he know Swissmetal were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!). He initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production, Swissmetal previously had not rolled it to such a thin specification but did have the equipment to do it reliably, Robert literally had to teach the foundry technicians how to roll the blanks to his thin specification without cracking! It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years ('57-'59) refining the production process, sound characteristics and model names and sizes, this means that most likely the "Super 602" didn't reach widespread distribution until about 1959. This (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602".<br>
  
−
[[File:57 catalog back cover.jpg|thumb|right|450px|1957 catalog, back cover]]
+
*Two of the stamps of this series still look very similar to the [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Stambul STAMBUL series] stamp: The "Stambul style" logo seems to come in two versions: one with Formula 602 label and one without, both saye "Super" below the star and crescent moon (see examples below).<br>
−
[[File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 1.jpg|thumb|right|450px|57-59 catalog 1]]
 
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[[File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 2.jpg|thumb|right|450px|57-59 catalog 2]]
 
  
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'''Introduction:''' 1957<br>
+
*There are also two versions of a second style which looks like the Early Formula 602 stamp, one has the word "Super" written to the upper right, the second variation does not have the word "Super", neither have the words "Formula 602" (this is why we call it the "plain stamp").<br>
−
'''Discontinued:''' 1959<br>
 
  
−
'''Background:''' The super Formula 602 series:  Introduced in 1957, it transitioned to the Formula 602 series by 1959.<br>
+
*The name "Super formula 602" is believed to come from Robert making 60 attempts on the production/rolling process before he was satisfied, the "2" refers to it being made from "B20". It is also speculated that the "Super formula" term comes from the process that Swissmetal used to heat, mix and pour the alloy.<br>
−
This series, once it became known as "Formula 602" is likely the most revered and sought after cymbal line produced by Paiste.<br> 
 
−
Unfortunately, we do not yet have the story behind its conception and how it was fully developed from the early days. One can see that from the Paiste catalog below (with purple cover '57), that the Super F602 was one of their three series of cymbals at that time.<br>
 
−
It was the first time Paiste started working with its traditional bronze (CuSn20) source or B20 alloy and they did so starting at the Swiss factory.
 
−
1957 to 1959 is a short period of time when the Super Formula 602 was released.  It's likely that it was more of a prototype development, which was refined over those 2 years.<br>
 
−
There were 2 different embossed logos used at this early inception:  1) the first generation logo was in '57 and 2) the second generation logo was likely in '58 and '59.  Both stamps are very different<br>
 
−
*There is an entirely separate series called [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super <b>"Super"</b>] which is not made from B20 (Formula 602 alloy) and came later.<br>  
 
  
−
'''Innovation:''' First B20 cymbal made by Paiste.<br>
+
*Most if not all Super formulas came with the smaller 7/16" (11mm) mounting hole, this carried on to the early formula 602's until about 1963\64.
  
 +
*Early Super formulas had many of the then current Stambul attributes: bulbous "igloo bell", similar lathing and profile. As you progress to the end of production, the bells, lathing and profiles resemble the "new" Formula 602 from that period.
 +
 +
* We do not have concrete proof on the chronological order of the different Super formula stamps, as we are exposed and or own more examples we will be able to make and educated guess as to thier correct order.
 +
 +
Note: There is an entirely separate series called [http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Super] which is not made from B20 alloy and came later. This has caused a lot of confusion over the years.<br>
 +
'''Innovation:''' First B20 cymbal made by Paiste. [https://youtu.be/KH2TPkhL0Ik?si=hhsP5FEM-9snUOjk Fritz Steger's explanation of the sourcing and development of Paiste's B20 alloy].<br>
 
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B20_Alloy|B20 Bronze]]<br>
 
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#B20_Alloy|B20 Bronze]]<br>
−
 
 
'''Quality:''' Professional<br>
 
'''Quality:''' Professional<br>
−
 
+
'''Production:''' Machine-Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze.<br>
−
'''Production:''' Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze.<br>
+
'''Applications:''' All types of modern music from that era.<br>
−
 
 
−
'''Applications:'''<br>
 
−
 
 
 
'''Users:''' Professional musicians and enthusiastic drummers, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound <br>
 
'''Users:''' Professional musicians and enthusiastic drummers, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound <br>
−
 
+
'''Sound:''' Similar to [[Paiste Formula 602#Formula 602|"modern" 602's]]: [https://youtu.be/Gb_Gl0xqbJs<b>Super Formula 24" ride</b>]<br><br>
−
'''Sound:''' Similar to "modern" 602's <br>
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==== Rides ====
−
 
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* '''[[Paiste Thin|Thin]] - 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
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==== Thin ride crash, Thin ride, Medium ride and Medium ride crash ====
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* '''[[Paiste Medium|Medium]] - 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
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+
* '''[[Paiste Thin Ride|Thin Ride]] - 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
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''' [[18"]] [[20"]] [[22"]] [[24"]]<br>
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* '''[[Paiste Thin Ride Crash|Thin Ride Crash]] - 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
−
 
+
* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride|Medium Ride]] - 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
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==== Thin & Meduim ====
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* '''[[Paiste Medium Ride Crash|Medium Ride Crash]] - 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
−
 
 
−
''' [[12"]] [[13"]] [[14"]] [[15"]] [[16"]] [[17"]] [[18"]] [[20"]] [[22"]] [[24"]]<br>
 
−
 
 
 
==== Hi-Hats ====
 
==== Hi-Hats ====
−
 
+
* '''[["Festival set" Hi-Hat]] -  No. 1, No. 2, No. 3, No. 4<br>
−
'''[[Hi-Hat "Festival set" #1 ]] -  [[15"meduim/14"heavy]]<br>
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* '''[[Paiste Medium Hi-Hat|Medium Hi-Hat]] - 13" 14" 15" 16"<br>
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'''[[Hi-Hat "Festival set" #2 ]] - [[15"thin/14"meduim]]<br>
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* '''[[Paiste Thin Hi-Hat|Thin Hi-Hat]] - 13" 14" 15" 16"<br>
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'''[[Hi-Hat "Festival set" #3 ]] - [[15"thin/16"meduim]]<br>
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==== Other ====
−
'''[[Hi-Hat "Festival set" #4 ]] -  [[14"thin/15"thin]]<br><br>
+
* '''[[Paiste Band Heavy|Band Heavy]] - 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
−
 
+
* '''[[Paiste Band Medium|Band Medium]] - 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
−
The time span for the Super Formula 602 is about 1957-1959. It precedes the introduction of the Formula 602 series but uses the same alloy.<br>
+
* '''[[Paiste Orchestra Heavy|Orchestra Heavy]] - 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
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This has caused a lot of confusion over the years. The B20 Super Swiss Made seems to come in two versions, one with the Formula 602 line and one without.<br>  
+
* '''[[Paiste Orchestra Medium|Orchestra Medium]] - 12" 13" 14" 15" 16" 18" 20" 22" 24"<br>
−
There is also a second style which looks like the Early Formula 602 stamp and has Super written to the upper right.(see below)<br>
+
<br>
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Just to round things off there are embossed stamps which look like the Early Formula 602 stamp but leave off the Formula 602. (see below)<br>  
 
−
This variation is thought to represent the evolution of the trademark for the Formula 602 series just as it was coming out.<br>
 
−
 
 
 
<gallery>
 
<gallery>
−
File:Paiste-602-super.png|Super Formula 602 stamp
+
File:57 catalog back cover.jpg|'59-'62 catalog back cover, note "Stambul format" style of logo
−
File:Paiste-602-super-top.JPG|Super Formula 602 cymbal
+
File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 1.jpg|'59-'62 catalog "Stambul format" type logo
−
File:Paiste-22-2794-stamp.jpg|Super Swiss Made
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File:Paiste 57-59 catalog 2.jpg|'59-'62 catalog, note: Buddy Rich listed as an endorser!
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File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-logo.jpg|Super Second Gen Stamp
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File:Paiste Super Stambul Standard ad (Melos 1962).jpg|The super formula is still listed in "Melos" magazine in 1962
−
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-top.jpg|Super Second Gen Cymbal 15"
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File:Super formula plain stamp.jpg|"plain stamp"
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File:Paiste-pre602-logo.jpg|Pre 602 Stamp
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File:19-2200-plain stamp.jpg|plain stamp with "Switzerland" only stamp
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File:Paiste-pre602-top.jpg|Pre 602 Cymbal 22"
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File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-logo.jpg|"plain stamp Super" stamp
 +
File:16 super formula.jpg|"Super" only Stambul format
 +
File:602 14 super thin 2.jpg|"Super Formula 602" Stambul format
 +
File:Paiste-602-super-top.jpg|Stambul format "Super Formula 602" cymbal
 +
File:Paiste-SuperF602-gen2-top.jpg|"plain stamp" 15" Cymbal
 +
File:Super 602 blank logo 3.jpg|"plain stamp" 22" cymbal
 +
File:Super formula 15 top.jpg|Stambul format 15" thin
 +
File:Super formula 15 bttm.jpg|Bottom pic
 +
File:Paiste-pre602-top.jpg|22" plain stamp
 +
File:16 super formula 2.jpg|16" "Super" Stambul format stamp, very early production
 +
File:16 super formula 3.jpg|16" "Super" Stambul format stamp
 +
File:PXL 20221112 030512690.jpg|15" plain stamp hi hats
 +
File:PXL 20220911 224237700.jpg|2 Super formula Stambul stamp on the left, plain stamp upper right, preserial formula 602 lower right
 +
File:348389490 617278217036845 8312667369944589305 n.jpg|two "Super" only Stambul format cymbals, notice the difference in bell shape
 
</gallery>
 
</gallery>
−
 
−
We can't yet say whether there are any cymbals with the Super "Swiss made" stamp (no Formula 602 line) which might be some other alloy like NS12. There are some untested claims to that effect. Untested claims meaning that a piece of the cymbal has not yet gone for [[Alloys#B20_Alloy|lab analysis]].<br>
 
−
 
  
 
-----------
 
-----------
−
Information from: '''[[Paiste Advertising|Paiste '57-'59 catalog]], Steve Black, Todd Little, Dan Garza
+
Information from: '''[[Paiste Advertising|Paiste '57-'59 catalog]], Steve Black, Todd Little, Dan Garza, Fritz Steger
  
 
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br>
 
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br>
 
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]
 
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]

Latest revision as of 11:10, 10 May 2024

Super Formula 602

catalog logo
catalog logo

Introduction: ~1957-'59
Discontinued: ~1962-'63: replaced by Formula 602
Background:
Robert Paiste had been experimenting with cymbals made of B20 bell bronze starting in 1957 when he first opened the Swiss factory (at that point it was a one room shop!).
It should be noted that Robert founded the Swiss factory across lake Sempach from where their future B20 alloy supplier "Metallwerke Dornach/Swissmetal" was located (Paiste had not used B20 alloy up to that point, little did he know Swissmetal were the only foundry and mill that produced B20 bronze in all of Switzerland and possibly all of western Europe!). He initially worked with Swissmetal and developed a process of rolling B20 thin enough for B20 cymbal production, Swissmetal previously had not rolled it to such a thin specification but did have the equipment to do it reliably, Robert literally had to teach the foundry technicians how to roll the blanks to his thin specification without cracking! It is believed that Robert spent a couple of years ('57-'59) refining the production process, sound characteristics and model names and sizes, this means that most likely the "Super 602" didn't reach widespread distribution until about 1959. This (new to Paiste) B20 alloy first came onto the market under the name "SUPER FORMULA 602".

  • Two of the stamps of this series still look very similar to the STAMBUL series stamp: The "Stambul style" logo seems to come in two versions: one with Formula 602 label and one without, both saye "Super" below the star and crescent moon (see examples below).
  • There are also two versions of a second style which looks like the Early Formula 602 stamp, one has the word "Super" written to the upper right, the second variation does not have the word "Super", neither have the words "Formula 602" (this is why we call it the "plain stamp").
  • The name "Super formula 602" is believed to come from Robert making 60 attempts on the production/rolling process before he was satisfied, the "2" refers to it being made from "B20". It is also speculated that the "Super formula" term comes from the process that Swissmetal used to heat, mix and pour the alloy.
  • Most if not all Super formulas came with the smaller 7/16" (11mm) mounting hole, this carried on to the early formula 602's until about 1963\64.
  • Early Super formulas had many of the then current Stambul attributes: bulbous "igloo bell", similar lathing and profile. As you progress to the end of production, the bells, lathing and profiles resemble the "new" Formula 602 from that period.
  • We do not have concrete proof on the chronological order of the different Super formula stamps, as we are exposed and or own more examples we will be able to make and educated guess as to thier correct order.

Note: There is an entirely separate series called Super which is not made from B20 alloy and came later. This has caused a lot of confusion over the years.
Innovation: First B20 cymbal made by Paiste. Fritz Steger's explanation of the sourcing and development of Paiste's B20 alloy.
Alloy: B20 Bronze
Quality: Professional
Production: Machine-Hand hammered and hand lathed bronze.
Applications: All types of modern music from that era.
Users: Professional musicians and enthusiastic drummers, refined drummers and sound specialists with precise requirements that need a fully developed character in their cymbal sound
Sound: Similar to "modern" 602's: Super Formula 24" ride

Rides

Hi-Hats

Other


  • '59-'62 catalog back cover, note "Stambul format" style of logo

  • '59-'62 catalog "Stambul format" type logo

  • '59-'62 catalog, note: Buddy Rich listed as an endorser!

  • The super formula is still listed in "Melos" magazine in 1962

  • "plain stamp"

  • plain stamp with "Switzerland" only stamp

  • "plain stamp Super" stamp

  • "Super" only Stambul format

  • "Super Formula 602" Stambul format

  • Stambul format "Super Formula 602" cymbal

  • "plain stamp" 15" Cymbal

  • "plain stamp" 22" cymbal

  • Stambul format 15" thin

  • Bottom pic

  • 22" plain stamp

  • 16" "Super" Stambul format stamp, very early production

  • 16" "Super" Stambul format stamp

  • 15" plain stamp hi hats

  • 2 Super formula Stambul stamp on the left, plain stamp upper right, preserial formula 602 lower right

  • two "Super" only Stambul format cymbals, notice the difference in bell shape

Information from: Paiste '57-'59 catalog, Steve Black, Todd Little, Dan Garza, Fritz Steger

Return to the Paiste Series Portal
 Return to the Paiste Cymbal Type Portal

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