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| − | __NOEDITSECTION__
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| − | == Wiki cymbal cleaning supplemental ==
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| − | <div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
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| − | [[File:Cleaners.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220816 233421428.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220911 224505455.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:Stambul 65 18 th cr sdie by side.jpg|thumb|right|350px|before and after]]
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| − | [[File:Georgy boy trio.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The three stages of cleaning a very tarnished cymbal]]
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| − | [[File:Wrecked to resurected.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The three stages of cleaning another very tarnished cymbal]]
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| − | [[File:Triple.jpg|thumb|right|350px|The three stages of cleaning another very tarnished cymbal]]
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| − | [[File:Super cleaned.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Before and after on an absurdly oxidised cymbal!]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004537068.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220910 022617982.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004746437.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220913 035818972.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004553206.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220910 022635783.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 015635796.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220909 232835938.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004427967.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220923 003445414.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004537068.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220923 003257354.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004746437.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20220911 224404927.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004553206.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 015635796.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − | [[File:PXL 20221009 004427967.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]]
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| − |
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| − | '''My journey to find the perfect cymbal cleaner.'''
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| − |
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| − | Patina, Tarnish, corrosion, oxidation... what is it, how does it happen and more importantly, how do you get rid of it? A little chemistry lesson 1st:
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| − |
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| − | Wikipedia:<br>
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| − | <i>"Copper does not react with water, but it does slowly react with atmospheric oxygen to form a layer of brown-black copper oxide which, unlike the rust that forms on iron in moist air, protects the underlying metal from further corrosion (passivation). A green layer of verdigris (copper carbonate) can often be seen on old copper structures, such as the roofing of many older buildings and the Statue of Liberty. Copper tarnishes when exposed to some sulfur compounds, with which it reacts to form various copper sulfides."<br>
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| − | '''Patina''', also referred to as precious rust or copper rust, is a dull corrosion layer that forms on the surface of primarily copper objects and copper-containing alloys (such as bronze) as a result of oxidation of the metal when exposed to air and moisture. The color of this layer can vary from green to dark brown. The difference in color has to do with the much more aggressive effect of the acid in rain than the much calmer oxidation of the copper with only the oxygen from the air. The formation of a patina layer can take decades. Natural copper patinas consist of basic copper compounds (carbonate, sulfate and chloride).<br>
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| − |
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| − | "Tin resists corrosion from water, but can be corroded by acids and alkalis. Tin can be highly polished and is used as a protective coat for other metals, a protective oxide (passivation) layer prevents further oxidation"</i><br>
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| − |
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| − | *Note: I exchange the terms "tarnish", "corrosion" and "oxidation" throughout this article, my intention is they have the same meaning.
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| − |
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| − | ===Experience attained over decades of cleaning cymbals:===
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| − | ----
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| − | I have been using and cleaning Paiste cymbals since 1980. Since day one, I have strived to find the perfect cleaner that won't remove the clear coat or labels from the cymbal but will clean off fingerprints and oxidation.<br>
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| − | From my experience of owning both B8 and B20 cymbals, I have found that B8 cymbals tend to oxidize/tarnish very quickly (it's assumed this is from the high copper to tin ratio) if they are not coated or if the clear coat has been worn off, this can happen in a matter of hours (see pictures below).<br>
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| − | I speculate that when Paiste first produced their B8 cymbals in the mid 1960s, they realized they would have to coat them in order to keep them from immediately tarnishing and oxidizing. There was no way they could sell new cymbals with the change in color and with dark fingerprints on them. I believe this is when they started applying a clear coat on their new B8 cymbals and soon after, applied it to all thier other series.<br>
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| − | The salt and sweat, from your fingers tends to be mildly corrosive to the alloy, especially B8, this tends to work its way through the clear coat and start to eat away or oxidize the copper in the alloy (in severe cases, if left in that condition of years). When the tarnish is removed (usually by a mild acid in the cleaner), the oxidized material will be broken down and removed as well. You see the same effect but on a much larger scale when rust has been removed from steel and the pitting is revealed. After removing the tarnish (for example, with Flitz tarnish spray) what you have left is a smooth matte finish, not shiny, but rather dull looking (see picture below).<br>
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| − | When polish is applied, you can bring back the shine of the cymbal, but it will never regain the original texture/finish. Some of the alloy was broken down and removed and you are now polishing a new surface, the cymbal will have more of a shiny, brilliant" polished finish (see pictures to the lower right and below) after cleaning.<br>
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| − | <br>
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:PXL 20221013 012928742.jpg|This cymbal was cleaned and then wiped with Windex on edge to get rid of a fingerprint
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| − | File:PXL 20221013 012938473.jpg|This is a closeup 24 hours later
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| − | File:PXL 20221013 225344046.jpg|This cymbal was cleaned and not coated, this is the result 24 hours later
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| − | File:PXL 20221013 225354956.jpg|comparison to a coated cymbal
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| − | File:Georgy boy 20 stambul 65 2.jpg|This cymbal has had the oxidation chemically removed, what is left is a dull "matte" finish
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | * Cleaning tip: Always, '''Always''' rub/wipe the cleaner along the lathing grooves (in a curved motion) when cleaning a cymbal, never "across" them! I have have seen countless cleaning videos where the user rubs the cleaner in a back and forth pattern across the lathing or in small circles like when waxing a car! Doing this will wear off the clear coat on the top of the lathing groves and leave swirl marks all over the cymbal (depending on how abrasive the cleaner is). It is also recommended you use the same technique when applying any type of coating/protector.<br>
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| − |
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| − | *Note: Abrasives will tend to remove ink logos and clear coat, acids will break down the dark stains of tarnish/oxidation.<br><br>
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| − |
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| − | ===To clean or not to clean, that is the question!===
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| − | ----
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| − | For decades and decades, there has always been the controversy on whether or not you should clean your cymbals or let them oxidize tarnish to build up a “patina”.<br>
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| − | Many say that this builds “character” in the cymbal, the basic truth is, dirt and corrosion tarnish will dull the cymbal reduce the high frequencies and sustain. How much of an effect this has on the overall sound is very hard to quantify, but careful A/B tests before and after cleaning does show some difference.<br>
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| − | My take on this whole situation is when a new cymbal is originally designed/developed, the designer doesn't take it and bury it in this backyard for three months trying to get it to oxidise, tarnish and corrode and then say "that's the sound I’m looking for"!<br>
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| − | A new cymbal sound is developed when the cymbal is clean, not dirty and tarnished. Therefore, my thinking is; I want my vintage cymbal to resemble as closely as possible the cymbal that left the factory when it was made. I can't account for wear and tear and metal fatigue, but what I can do is make the cymbal as clean as it was when it left the factory.<br>
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| − | Letting cymbal tarnish and build up a patina is great for jazz drummers if you're looking for a dark, dull, trashy, dirty sound, I am not of that school, so I try to get my cymbals to resemble as closely as possible when they were created! The last point is the visual aspect: because of the hammering techniques and use of a clear coat, Paiste cymbals have a distinct look and shine compared to any other brand.<br><br>
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| − |
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| − | ===Reviews:===
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| − | Here's my experience with several different cleaners I have used and tested, I put them in order of most gentle to most abrasive.<br>
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| − | I have also added two ratings for each cleaner effectiveness and abrasiveness each coating/protector for their effectiveness (scale 1 to 10):
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| − | ----
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| − | === Soap & water===
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| − | Effectiveness: 2<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 0<br>
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| − |
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| − | If the cymbal is relatively new, soap (dish detergent), water and a paper towel will get the salt, oil and dirt from your fingers off of the cymbal so it doesn't start to degrade the clear coat and corrode the alloy.
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| − | Really only effective on newer cymbals.
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Dawn.png
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | === Cymbal soap:===
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| − | Effectiveness: 3<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 0<br>
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| − | Better cleaner than plain dish detergent, more effective at removing fingerprints, rub it in until it dries then wash the cymbal with soap & water, will leave a nice shine when dried.
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Cymbal soap.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | === Flitz spray/tarnish remover:===
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| − | Effectiveness: 11+<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 0<br>
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| − | "This one goes to eleven"!<br>
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| − | Flitz tarnish remover spray will breakdown the worst green tarnish/oxidation in seconds (see video below).<br>
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| − | The drawback is it will leave the alloy "bare/exposed" and ready to oxidize/tarnish immediately, the cymbal must be washed with soap & water afterward to remove the remnants and then dried ASAP. It must then be coated ASAP before it starts to change color!<br>
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| − | Wear cloves! I found it irritated my hands, I also found pouring it on a paper towel and wiping it on is much more effective than spraying. Also, the mist created by the spray is very irritating to the eyes ('''do not get in you eyes!''').<br>
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| − | Do not leave on for more than about a minute or the cymbal will start to change color and eventually turn black if left to dry (ask me how I know this!)! For extremely tarnished corroded cymbal, I used a worn slightly abrasive scotch brite pad to "work" the worst spots of corrosion.<br>
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| − | '''Contains: Dioxane and "Urea Monohydro-Chloride" which is acidic.'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Flitz spray.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034527518.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | [https://youtu.be/yR0Ss4cKd5I Flitz spray in action, I'm wearing gloves, a mask and glasses]
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Klasse all in one===
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| − | Effectiveness: 5 (cleaning ability)<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 1<br>
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| − |
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| − | I've listed this product twice because it's both a cleaner and a "sealer".
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| − | Very effective for cymbals with a clear coat and moderate dirt, uses an "acrylic-based" coating, not sure if it has an abrasive, but is effective at cleaning moderately dirty cymbals, should be safe for ink logos and clear coat.<br> Works best on cymbals without a clear coat, does both jobs simultaneously! Acrylic coating/finish is slightly hazy compared to the bare alloy.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: Acrylic based coating, other ingredients unknown, abrasives unknown or not present.'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Klasse all in one.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034438614.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | === Blue magic:===
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| − | Effectiveness: 6<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 4<br>
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| − | Smelly (contains Ammonia) and messy but easy on ink labels, the cleaner will take them off if rubbed long and hard enough, it is gentle on the clear coat, if used lightly, it will actually polish the clear coat (see example below).
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| − | Best practice is to rub off cleaner in multiple stages using clean paper towels, this process will actually help polish the finish of the cymbal. Washing with soap and water will not remove all of the remnants (slight dark tinge to the finish will remain). <br>
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| − | I have found a very light diluted (with water) coating of Barkeeper's soft cleanser will bring out the rest of the Blue magic cleaner (paper towel will turn black). Wash with soap & water and dry ASAP, then coat cymbal if it doesn't have a clear coat. I've used this process on most of my cymbals that were fairly to moderately dirty.<br>
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: Oleic Acid, Aluminium Oxide (abrasive), Ammonium Hydroxide, Silicone.'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Blue magic.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034618658.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20220918 014340112.jpg|clear coat is rough
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| − | File:PXL 20221015 023812971.jpg|after Bluemagic, clear coat has been polished!
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Flitz paste===
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| − | Effectiveness: 6<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 4<br>
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| − | Good all around cleaner has tarnish remover chemicals in it, not nearly as messy as Blue magic, it does have an abrasive in it (even though the label says differently), will remove clear coat and labels if rubbed hard and long enough.
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| − | Good alternative to Blue magic or Paiste cymbal cleaner, does not leave behind remnants like Blue magic does, but I still recommend washing with soap & water afterward.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: Aluminum Oxide, Triethanolamine 102-71-6 (cleaning agent) Castor oil, sulfated, sodium salt (surfactant).'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Flitz.jpeg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034146821.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Paiste cymbal cleaner===
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| − | Effectiveness: 7<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 6<br>
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| − |
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| − | The standard all other cleaners are measured against! Can be used gently on cymbals with a clear coat, eventually labels and clear coat will wear off from repeated uses. FYI: Cleaner does contain a mild acid and abrasive.
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| − | Recent findings show that Paiste cymbal cleaner is actually "Stahl fix" in a relabeld bottle, see below for review and contents.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: should be same as Stahl fix'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Paiste cleaner.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Mr. Muscle/Stahl fix===
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| − | Effectiveness: 7<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 6<br>
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| − | Paiste cymbal cleaner in the original bottle (see explanation below)!<br>
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| − | Cleans very effectively and will not remove labels if cymbal is wet to dilute the cleaner and you rub very gently. The amount of cleaning is determined by how much you rub, that also determines how much clear coat and labels are removed. The acids in the cleaner help remove the dark stains from tarnish very well. Do not let dry, it will become very abrasive at that stage, Washes of with water, recommend washing with soap & water afterward.<br>
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| − |
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| − | According to my source, he was at the factory about 20+ years ago and saw the Paiste techs pouring Stahl fix from a large bulk container into the orange Paiste cymbal cleaner bottles!
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| − | The formula also changed around that time as well, another user has some of the "old" Paiste cleaner and when comparing the two, he says the "smell" changed from the old 1990's cleaner compared to the "modern" version. He also says latest Paiste cleaner does smell very similar to the current Mr. Muscle. As usual, I wash with soap & water afterward. <br>
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: aluminum oxide, citric acid, phosphoric acid, mineral oil.'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Stahl fix contents.jpg|contents
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| − | File:Stahl fix advert.jpg|Original advert
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| − | File:Shahl fix.jpg|Old bottle & formula
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| − | File:Mr muscle.jpg|New bottle & formula
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034358758.jpg|Back of bottle
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| − | File:PXL 20220816 232559970.jpg|Plenty in stock for cleaning!
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Barkeeper's soft cleanser===
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| − | Effectiveness: 9<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 7<br>
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| − |
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| − | The best all around cleaner for moderate to very dirty cymbals. The acids are are strong which is great at removing tarnish and green corrosion from salty finger prints (see below).
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| − | Can be used on cymbals with a clear coat if diluted with water and rubbed '''VERY''' lightly! In this application, the acids do almost all the work. On very dirty cymbals the color change is immediate, only Flitz tarnish spray is stronger.As usual, I wash with soap & water afterward. <br>
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: Oxalic Acid, Glass Oxide Abrasive, Citric Acid, Surfactants'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Barkeepers paste.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034332124.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Barkeeper's dry cleanser===
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| − | Effectiveness: 9<br>
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| − | Abrasiveness: 11+<br>
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| − |
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| − | Same basic recipe as the soft cleanser, but in dry form making more abrasive when wet.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: same as soft cleanser'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Barkeepers powder.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − |
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| − |
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| − | '''Sealers protective coatings'''
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| − | I have added a rating for each coating/protector for their effectiveness (scale 1 to 10):
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| − | ----
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| − |
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| − | === The Last coat===
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| − | Effectiveness: 0<br>
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| − | Does nothing to protect the cymbal, does add a little bit of shine but otherwise, completely ineffective.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains:?'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Last coat.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Pearl drum & cymbal polish===
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| − | Effectiveness: 3<br>
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| − | I had high hopes for this product, when it was applied and buffed it left a very nice shine and smooth slippery coating, 24 hours alter the cymbal started to oxidize, so only really effective on cymbals with a clear coat. Also, I couldn't really tell if it cleaned the cymbal at all, maybe it will work better on my drums!
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: ?'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Pearl polish.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034207424.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Lemon pledge===
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| − | Effectiveness: 6<br>
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| − |
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| − | Not as effective as Carnauba wax, smells nice, reasonably effective at protecting the cymbals, leaves a decent shine, very little haziness.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: iso paraffin (petroleum based wax), dimethicone (silicon-based polymer)'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Lemon pledge.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034046439.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − |
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Pure (no cleaner) Carnauba wax===
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| − | Effectiveness: 7<br>
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| − |
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| − | Creates a decent protective layer if the clear coat is gone, requires lots of rubbing to get it to shine, finish is still hazy, does keep the cymbal from oxidizing fairly well.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: Carnauba wax'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Carnauba.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − |
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| − | ===Paiste cymbal protector===
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| − | Effectiveness: ?<br>
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| − |
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| − | Never seen it in person, never used it, according to Paiste, it's the same coating they use when the cymbals leave the factory....
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains:?''''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Paiste preotector.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===Klasse all in one===
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| − | Effectiveness: 8<br>
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| − |
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| − | See review above in the cleaner section.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains:'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Klasse all in one.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034438614.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | === Klasse high gloss sealant glaze===
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| − | Effectiveness: 9<br>
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| − |
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| − |
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains:'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Klasse.jpg
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| − | File:PXL 20221021 034416611.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − | ----
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| − | ===ProtectaClear===
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| − | Effectiveness: 11+<br>
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| − |
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| − | I believe this is what Paiste ues at the factory; either oil based or water based clear lacquer. I tested it on a "dummy cymbal", it goes on a little thick, but is rock solid in protecting the cymbal, it has not changed color/tarnished one bit in the last month! The next step is to "cut it" 50/50 with lacquer thinner so I can apply a thinner coat. I'll do a before and after video to see how much the cymbals' sound changes from the coating.
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| − |
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| − | '''Contains: Oil based clear lacquer'''
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| − |
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| − | <gallery>
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| − | File:Protectaclear.jpg
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| − | File:Protectaclear 1.jpg
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| − | File:Protectaclear 2.jpg
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| − | </gallery>
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| − |
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| − | ----------------------------------------------------
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| − |
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| − | Return to the '''[[Paiste|Main Page]]<br>
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| − | Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br>
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| − | Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]]
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