Difference between revisions of "Paiste Zilko"
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'''Background:'''<br> | '''Background:'''<br> | ||
The official Paiste '09 timeline states they were discontinued in 1960, but we found them on a Dallas-Arbiter price list in 1966.<br> | The official Paiste '09 timeline states they were discontinued in 1960, but we found them on a Dallas-Arbiter price list in 1966.<br> | ||
| − | They were first introduced using MS63 (brass alloy) from 1935-1948, when being made in Estonia (see gallery | + | They were first introduced using MS63 (brass alloy) from 1935-1948, when being made in Estonia (see gallery below).<br> |
| − | Once Paiste relocated to Germany (1947), they made the change to using NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy) | + | Once Paiste relocated to Germany (1947), they made the change to using NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), we do know that these cymbals were not considered, top-of-the-line, rather they were intended as an economy or general, mid-level cymbal.<br> |
| − | + | We don't exactly know what Paiste originally offered size wise (pre 1950), however here's what we do know and includes the following types and sizes:<br> | |
| − | We | ||
| − | '''PAISTE | + | '''PAISTE 1950/52/58 CATALOG:<br>''' |
'''Thin & Medium:'''<br> | '''Thin & Medium:'''<br> | ||
9" through 14" (Jazz type cymbals)<br> | 9" through 14" (Jazz type cymbals)<br> | ||
| Line 29: | Line 28: | ||
14" through 18" and 20"<br> | 14" through 18" and 20"<br> | ||
| − | '''ARBITER Ltd. '66 PRICE LIST:''' | + | '''ARBITER Ltd. '66 PRICE LIST:''' (No weight designated)<br> |
| − | |||
11" through 16", 18", and 20"<br> | 11" through 16", 18", and 20"<br> | ||
| Line 36: | Line 34: | ||
<gallery> | <gallery> | ||
File:Early zilko logo.jpg|Pre war Zilko logo | File:Early zilko logo.jpg|Pre war Zilko logo | ||
| − | File:Pre war brass zilko.jpg|Pre war brass | + | File:Pre war brass zilko.jpg|Pre war brass Zilko (picture courtesy of Paiste) |
File:Zilkos.jpg| Zilko "be bop" cymbals | File:Zilkos.jpg| Zilko "be bop" cymbals | ||
File:Zilko china.jpg|Zilko china | File:Zilko china.jpg|Zilko china | ||
| Line 59: | Line 57: | ||
__NOEDITSECTION__ | __NOEDITSECTION__ | ||
| − | == Standard/Zilko Standard== | + | == Standard/Zilko Standard == |
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div> | <div style="float:right">__TOC__</div> | ||
[[File:Standard logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]] | [[File:Standard logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]] | ||
[[File:Standard logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]] | [[File:Standard logo 1.jpg|thumb|right|350px|]] | ||
[[File:Zilko standard.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Zilko Standard logo circo 1960's]] | [[File:Zilko standard.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Zilko Standard logo circo 1960's]] | ||
| − | '''Introduction:''' | + | '''Introduction:''' 1957*<br> |
| − | '''Discontinued:''' 1964*<br> | + | '''Discontinued:''' 1964*<br> (*) Pending further investigation. |
| − | (*) Pending further investigation. | ||
'''Background:''' <br> | '''Background:''' <br> | ||
| − | Not to be confused with the "Ludwig Standard" line of cymbals, | + | Not to be confused with the "Ludwig Standard" line of cymbals, these were produced before the Ludwig's but the name could've been transferred post 1964: [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Ludwig#Ludwig_Standard '''Ludwig Standard cymbals'''.]<br> |
| − | We have proof of its existence from the cover of the 1957 catalog (see below), unfortunately, we do not have the inside pages to the '57 catalog, so we have no data on types and sizes offered on this series, early 1960s catalogs need to be found to answer these questions for sure. Paiste customer service confirmed they were made until around 1963 or so.<br> | + | We have proof of its existence from the back cover of the 1957 catalog (see below), unfortunately, we do not have the inside pages to the '57 catalog, so we have no data on types and sizes offered on this series, early 1960s catalogs need to be found to answer these questions for sure. Paiste customer service confirmed they were made until around 1963 or so.<br> |
We do know Standards and Zilko Standards are the same cymbal, most likely a late 50's upgrade of the brass Zilko line, they likely came out in late '57 or 1958.<br> | We do know Standards and Zilko Standards are the same cymbal, most likely a late 50's upgrade of the brass Zilko line, they likely came out in late '57 or 1958.<br> | ||
It's possible they were stamped "Standard" in Switzerland and "Zilko Standard" in Germany or the stamping could have changed in time: Standard at first, Zilko Standard later.<br> | It's possible they were stamped "Standard" in Switzerland and "Zilko Standard" in Germany or the stamping could have changed in time: Standard at first, Zilko Standard later.<br> | ||
It's unclear on the stamping variations, but Paiste confirmed they are the same cymbal regardless of how the logo was applied.<br> | It's unclear on the stamping variations, but Paiste confirmed they are the same cymbal regardless of how the logo was applied.<br> | ||
It looks like they were only made in the Swiss factory for a short time and then production shifted to Germany only, either that or these were indeed the original Dixie and they changed the name in 1959, that could be why there are so few of them around. <br> | It looks like they were only made in the Swiss factory for a short time and then production shifted to Germany only, either that or these were indeed the original Dixie and they changed the name in 1959, that could be why there are so few of them around. <br> | ||
| − | The | + | The Standard and Zilko Standard were made from NS12 (Nickel Silver alloy), it's likely that they were the lower budget line at the time. We do know that the Standard series had 14" hi-hats and an 18", whether it was a crash or a ride, and a 16" crash, as part of their offering.<br> |
| − | We do know that the Standard series had 14" hi-hats and an 18", whether it was a crash or a ride, and a 16" crash, as part of their offering.<br> | ||
'''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver]]<br> | '''Alloy:''' [[Identify_Your_Paistes#Nickel Silver|Nickel Silver]]<br> | ||
| Line 91: | Line 87: | ||
File:Standard cymbal.jpg|Standard 16" or 18" | File:Standard cymbal.jpg|Standard 16" or 18" | ||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| Line 108: | Line 107: | ||
'''Background:'''<br> | '''Background:'''<br> | ||
| − | The official Paiste '09 timeline doesn't even recognize this series. The only records we have are from the mid-1960's to the early 1970's and they were from distributor catalogs & price lists | + | The official Paiste '09 timeline doesn't even recognize this series. The only records we have are from the mid-1960's to the early 1970's and they were from distributor catalogs & price lists (Arbiter lists them in thier '71/'72 c catalog), nothing in a Paiste catalog, as of yet. Due to the time frame, it's most likely that early versions of this cymbal line were made of NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), then later, B8. Most of the conversion from NS12 to B8 took place somewhere from 1966 to 1970.<br> |
| − | Due to the time frame, it's most likely that early versions of this cymbal line were made of NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), then later, B8. Most of the conversion from NS12 to B8 took place somewhere from 1966 to 1970.<br> | + | Arbiter Zilkets were most likely rebranded [https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Super#Super Supers] (or "Standards", but we feel the "Super" is more the likely the case as these cymbals were produced into the early 70s and late versions were made of B8).<br> |
| − | Arbiter Zilkets were most likely rebranded Supers (or | ||
Until we gain access to catalogs from this earlier time frame, we are left to guess. We do know they were made for beginners, advanced students, schools and small combos.<br> | Until we gain access to catalogs from this earlier time frame, we are left to guess. We do know they were made for beginners, advanced students, schools and small combos.<br> | ||
The following types and sizes were available during this time frame:<br> | The following types and sizes were available during this time frame:<br> | ||
| − | '''DALLAS-ARBITER '69 & '71-'72 CATALOGS:''' | + | '''DALLAS-ARBITER '69 & '71-'72 CATALOGS:''' (No weight designated)<br> |
| − | |||
14" hi hats, 16", 18" and 20"<br> | 14" hi hats, 16", 18" and 20"<br> | ||
| + | |||
<gallery> | <gallery> | ||
File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 5.jpg|Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 catalog listing Zilkets | File:Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 5.jpg|Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 catalog listing Zilkets | ||
| + | File:Dallas arbiter 71 72 price list.jpg|1971-72 catalog listing Zilket sizes and prices | ||
File:Zilket.jpg|Zilket NS12 cymbal | File:Zilket.jpg|Zilket NS12 cymbal | ||
| − | File:Ziket 18 cr ride.jpg|18" | + | File:Ziket 18 cr ride.jpg|18" Zilket |
| − | File:ZILKET-Arbiter-14-Hi.jpg|14" hi-hats | + | File:ZILKET-Arbiter-14-Hi.jpg|14" Zilket hi-hats |
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
<br> | <br> | ||
Revision as of 15:36, 16 October 2021
Zilko
Introduction: 1935
Discontinued: 1966*
Pending further investigation.*
Alloy: Brass MS63 - Nickel Silver
Quality: economy or general, mid-level cymbal
Background:
The official Paiste '09 timeline states they were discontinued in 1960, but we found them on a Dallas-Arbiter price list in 1966.
They were first introduced using MS63 (brass alloy) from 1935-1948, when being made in Estonia (see gallery below).
Once Paiste relocated to Germany (1947), they made the change to using NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), we do know that these cymbals were not considered, top-of-the-line, rather they were intended as an economy or general, mid-level cymbal.
We don't exactly know what Paiste originally offered size wise (pre 1950), however here's what we do know and includes the following types and sizes:
PAISTE 1950/52/58 CATALOG:
Thin & Medium:
9" through 14" (Jazz type cymbals)
"Charleston" (hi-hats in pairs):
9" through 13" *Note: Hi hat cymbals were referred to as "Charleston" cymbals
Marching "Chinese style" (in pairs):
14" through 18" and 20"
ARBITER Ltd. '66 PRICE LIST: (No weight designated)
11" through 16", 18", and 20"
Pre war Zilko logo
Pre war brass Zilko (picture courtesy of Paiste)
Zilko "be bop" cymbals
Zilko china
NS12 Zilko 14"
1950 catalog
1950 catalog
1952 Catalog
1952 Catalog
1958 catalog
1958 catalog
Standard/Zilko Standard
Introduction: 1957*
Discontinued: 1964*
(*) Pending further investigation.
Background:
Not to be confused with the "Ludwig Standard" line of cymbals, these were produced before the Ludwig's but the name could've been transferred post 1964: Ludwig Standard cymbals.
We have proof of its existence from the back cover of the 1957 catalog (see below), unfortunately, we do not have the inside pages to the '57 catalog, so we have no data on types and sizes offered on this series, early 1960s catalogs need to be found to answer these questions for sure. Paiste customer service confirmed they were made until around 1963 or so.
We do know Standards and Zilko Standards are the same cymbal, most likely a late 50's upgrade of the brass Zilko line, they likely came out in late '57 or 1958.
It's possible they were stamped "Standard" in Switzerland and "Zilko Standard" in Germany or the stamping could have changed in time: Standard at first, Zilko Standard later.
It's unclear on the stamping variations, but Paiste confirmed they are the same cymbal regardless of how the logo was applied.
It looks like they were only made in the Swiss factory for a short time and then production shifted to Germany only, either that or these were indeed the original Dixie and they changed the name in 1959, that could be why there are so few of them around.
The Standard and Zilko Standard were made from NS12 (Nickel Silver alloy), it's likely that they were the lower budget line at the time. We do know that the Standard series had 14" hi-hats and an 18", whether it was a crash or a ride, and a 16" crash, as part of their offering.
Alloy: Nickel Silver
Quality: Budget, student, entry level
Applications: Ideal for the beginner or student and are particularly useful in the grade school band, or small combo
1957 catalog
14" hi-hats
Standard 16" or 18"
Arbiter Zilket
Introduction: 1965*
Discontinued: 1974*
Pending further investigation.*
Alloy: Nickel Silver - CuSn8
Background:
The official Paiste '09 timeline doesn't even recognize this series. The only records we have are from the mid-1960's to the early 1970's and they were from distributor catalogs & price lists (Arbiter lists them in thier '71/'72 c catalog), nothing in a Paiste catalog, as of yet. Due to the time frame, it's most likely that early versions of this cymbal line were made of NS12 (Nickel-silver alloy), then later, B8. Most of the conversion from NS12 to B8 took place somewhere from 1966 to 1970.
Arbiter Zilkets were most likely rebranded Supers (or "Standards", but we feel the "Super" is more the likely the case as these cymbals were produced into the early 70s and late versions were made of B8).
Until we gain access to catalogs from this earlier time frame, we are left to guess. We do know they were made for beginners, advanced students, schools and small combos.
The following types and sizes were available during this time frame:
DALLAS-ARBITER '69 & '71-'72 CATALOGS: (No weight designated)
14" hi hats, 16", 18" and 20"
Dallas Arbiter 1971-72 catalog listing Zilkets
1971-72 catalog listing Zilket sizes and prices
Zilket NS12 cymbal
18" Zilket
14" Zilket hi-hats
Information from: Timeline from nf drums Germany Todd Little, Mark Carlson, Dan Garza
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